To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Does anyone know why my (very long) related AIBU thread, started last night, asking whether Israel's actions constitute a war crime was deleted? I came back to it this morning, and as I was about to post some replies it disappeared.

@emilysquest sorry no, I didn’t see your thread

@parakeet7 thousands of Palestinians have also been killed already including over 500 kids. The act of threatening people with violence if they don’t move from their home is ethnic cleansing and a war crime.

I didn't read all of the thread i started before it disappeared but my sense was of some very entrenched positions and a lot of mud slinging. I haven't read this whole thread yet but I presume it will similar. It's indicative of the whole depressing situation I guess. Sides have been drawn up for centuries and there is in the minds of many no possibility of it ever being otherwise.

One particularly depressing aspect for me is the complete decline (collapse one could say) of any power/influence/relevance of the UN. They appear totally powerless in the current catastrophe. I grew up in the 1970s and had an idealistic view of the UN and the role it could play in creating a better post-war world. I became a one world socialist on the back of those ideals. All futile hopes of course, human nature would never allow it.

I've just read that Israel has cut off power AND WATER to Palestinian prisoners in their jails (some of which are children).

And then there's the news overnight that Israel bombed a convoy of evacuees leaving Gaza city leaving 70 dead.

Evil actions. I hope those in charge week be help to account for their crimes one day.

On the other thread where I asked whether Israel was committing war crimes someone came on with "gotcha" to the effect of "and you got your qualifications in international law where...?". I would say that you don't need to have any qualifications by this stage to see international war crimes law being trashed in front of our eyes. However, it wasn't much of a gotcha as although I don't practice as a lawyer I do have both a law degree and wrote my post grad thesis on an aspect of war crimes law. We are seeing war crimes here, there is no doubt of it.

Who is the UN? The UN is the permanent members abusing their privileged veto power to benefit their allies so it has no teeth like it used to. Permanent members encourage their allies to disregard the UN Resolutions and agencies and for as long as this continues UN is just useless and powerless.

@emilysquest yes, international law & the rules of war are being totally disregarded, as per Geneva Conventions. I think the Israeli government are emboldened by US support and think they can do what the fuck they like.

Going back to my original post, it’s sickening we are watching it happen in real time.

US and Israel negotiating with Egypt to open the Gaza-Egypt border crossing at Rafah for FIVE hours today

Thin end of the wedge for Egypt if they agree to this pressure against their better judgement

But maybe some relief for some Gazans today

@Efacsen and it means the people of Gaza are forced off their land as refugees into another country under the threat of violence. Ethnic cleansing.

I'm just wondering how long before the people saying that Israel has a perfect right to kick Palestinian civilians out of their homes start saying "Oh but we can't take any. We're full. And they're not children! They're well over four feet tall."

@Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73 it now looks like it's only going to be 'foreigners' trapped in Gaza who will be released into Egypt this afternoon. So hopefully Mrs SNPs MIL escape the hell-hole of Gaza

MSF have updated - hospital still standing. all patients and some staff evacuated

Inaccurate
Unproven information. Anti semitic

Which bits are (1) innacurate (2) unproven (3). antisemitic?

That about 500 kids have died?
That human rights watch have verified the use of white phosphorus?
That Israel has ordered 1.1 million people to leave north Gaza?
That the UN has said its impossible without devastating concequences?
That the hospital's are overflowing?
That there's a fuel shortage?
That there's nowhere for people to go given the Rafah crossing is shut (bombed by Israel)?
The legal definition of genocide?

I’m personally quite sick of being told I’m anti-Semitic because I don’t want any more innocent people killed.

@Coveescapee no problem!

Tiring? Nopity-nope! I've years of experience in dealing with terrorism, terrorist propaganda and what people think they know about conflicts like this. 👍

Hmm....what exactly are you suggesting from posting this screenshot of BBC News?

I have an inkling, but you should really clarify yourself at this point for the whole forum.

See my screenshots from BBC Verify.

Given Hamas' disregard for civilian lives by using them as human shields, I really wouldn't be surprised if Hamas carried this out themselves. It would certainly be good propaganda for them, so motive, opportunity and means is there.

Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67114281.amp

For someone who prides themselves on using source material and evidence you're making things up or telling outright lies on numerous occasions.

This is too important an issue for you to be making up things that don't suit your agenda so if you can't rely on the truth it's probably best not shut up.

Except I didn't make anything up, @Toothyfruity!

I simply asked someone what they were suggesting with their screenshot and provided BBC conclusion which is, funnily enough, inconclusive.

Then I added my opinion I certainly didn't pass off as an established fact.

I suggest you read more carefully rather than responding to what you thought was being said. 🤷‍♂️

@DownNative have you seen the audio clip of a Gazan civilian telling an IDF member that Hamas is blocking people from leaving? He says they are taking their documents and car keys. It's on the official IDF twitter feed.

No, I haven't seen it. Do you have a link?

@DownNative here you go.

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1713500050511253928

Thanks.

Considering NATO StratCom COE identified Hamas' Use Of Human Shields In Gaza 2008-2014, I have no problem believing Hamas would prevent Gazan civilians from trying to leave via road blocks.

It fits Hamas' MO, imo.

I wouldn't trust anything the IDF says but if that is true then it's shocking.

The IDF uses Palestinians as human shields too and is currently bombing Palestinian civilians so there's no moral high ground there.