Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

It's all just an amazing coincidence.

At the same protest where people were filmed chanting genocidal chants against Jews.

All just an amazing coincidence.

The words stubborn and wilful spring to mind.

@Frazzledfranny

How can people say ‘both sides are as bad as each other’..

Israel's Iron Dome (ID) defences prevent around 90% of the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist organisations' rockets getting through but it's known (and documented) that there is a saturation point at which ID will fail.

The terrorists have knowingly been trying to overwhelm ID so that their rockets will then get through and, them being unguided missiles, land indiscriminately in Israel.

I think there is an expectation from some that Israel should just allow that overwhelming of their defences to happen instead of trying to target the terrorists' launch sites and Hamas leaders to prevent it, as they are doing.

On the positive side, Rafael Defense and Raytheon were working on upgrading ID recently.

@Frazzledfranny

anemona no one on this thread has asked for the destruction of Israel. Are we all Hamas now?

The civilian people are not Hamas. This thread is about the civilian people in Palestine.

I think you have trouble with conflating Jewish religion and Israeli government and Palestinian civilians with Hamas.

I repeat no one on this thread has asked for the destruction of Israel.

I repeat Palestinian civilians are not Hamas.

Literally this, all day long.

There was a 320% increase in anti semitism reported last week and seeing this thread I’m not surprised. Defending that revolting inflatable, all the faux ‘but it’s not Jews I’m being nasty about, just Israel’ yeah right. Can’t believe this thread hasn’t been deleted.

I didn't ask, Blackberrycream, because it is something I already knew; but thank you anyway.

There is an awful lot of whataboutery to be seen as one reads through this thread, though. And it seems to me that the plight of the children in Gaza is nothing whatever to do with any previous horror, or any trouble in another place; it is happening to them there, and now. This does seem to get forgotten altogether too often and too easily in the urge to point out pretty-much anything else under the sun.

There is also implied "it isn't real" and "it's their own faults anyway", which completely throw me.

@Theluggage15

There was a 320% increase in anti semitism reported last week and seeing this thread I’m not surprised. Defending that revolting inflatable, all the faux ‘but it’s not Jews I’m being nasty about, just Israel’ yeah right. Can’t believe this thread hasn’t been deleted.

Because MN are probably going through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure there actually isn’t any.

To criticise what the Israeli government are doing and being condemned by the international is no way criticising the Jewish religion. There are many many Jewish activist groups that condemn the occupation too.

There was a 320% increase in anti semitism reported last week

Now that I believe, because everybody who has raised an issue that shows the Israeli Government on these threads has been accused of anti Semitism. In fact, seems to me that the only sensitivity some people have on here is to so called 'anti Semitic' comments, observations or reflections.
Most of us have much broader sensitivities that spread across religion,, heritage, nationality etc - it's called having a moral compass that seeks the common good and human rights for all.

Now that I believe, because everybody who has raised an issue that shows the Israeli Government in a bad light*

Oops

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/israelopt-pattern-of-israeli-attacks-on-residential-homes-in-gaza-must-be-investigated-as-war-crimes/

Israeli forces have displayed a shocking disregard for the lives of Palestinian civilians by carrying out a number of airstrikes targeting residential buildings in some cases killing entire families - including children - and causing wanton destruction to civilian property, in attacks that may amount to war crimes or crimes against humanity, said Amnesty International today.

I don’t think anyone has that expectation sophia I certainly don’t.

It’s a pity that the Palestinians don’t have the same resources then Hamas and the Israeli Government could just cancel each other out.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime and you seem to have forgotten that every single time an incident like this happens - it brings up the worst in all the antisemites that are normally trying to hide. And I don't buy this crap of "there are idiots everywhere" - yes, there are, but there seem to be too many when it comes to hating Jews. There are way too many idiots who hate us and want us dead, so when someone starts the old song of "it's not you, it's your Government" - I know it's me. It has always been me, but it takes an incident in the Middle East to happen so some people will speak up.

[quote anemona]@Frazzledfranny

Astonishing, Jewish people are not a monolith and have a range of views. Just like Muslims do.

What was your point again? Do the links you included post pictures of Jews having brunch in Tel Aviv?

Nope, I'm still not going to be bullied off the thread. However hard you try.[/quote]
No ones bullying you anemona. No one one is being antisemitic either. Your the only one using those words.

We sadly confirmed today that 11 of over 60 children killed by Israeli air strikes in #Gaza over the last week were participating in our programme helping them deal with trauma. All of the children between 5 and 15 years old were killed in their homes

Norwegian Refugee Council

I agree with a lot of what you say @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime.
I don’t think though that posters like anenoma are the ones focusing on the past and refusing to ask the hard questions about the real ways this could be moved forward. In the here and now, yes, the bombing has to stop. Hamas too need to stop firing.There are posters here who over and over have failed to acknowledge the second point.
In the longer term, there are huge issues to resolve that will need movement. Again , if you refuse to acknowledge that the aims of Hamas are part of that , you are not really interested in a resolution.
Lastly, it is an absolutely relevant point to wonder where the anger is about all the current emergency level genocide situations around the world is and why this specific situation attracts people who are unwilling to look at all aggravating factors in the Israeli situation. It is hard not to draw conclusions from that.

Jewish people are not a monolith and have a range of views

That is true, and many are appalled at the Right Wing government of Netanyahu and were on the streets protesting against it. Several Jewish sects even oppose the state of Israel.

What insults are lobbed at them I wonder by the pro Israeli Government supporters on here (anti Semitic?). Curious.

@Xenia spot on.

The blame lies with the Palestinians starting this by firing on Israel. They chose in effect to let their children die

Seriously? You are the only person that actually believes the Palestinian people started this recent conflict!

Point of note: Hamas are firing rockets, not ''the Palestinians'.

Your comments are as ignorant as those who claimed all the Irish were in the IRA.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxJd88xkBU&t=609s

Ex IDF soldier. Palestinians are right to resist. Brave man.

[quote Acidburn]@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime and you seem to have forgotten that every single time an incident like this happens - it brings up the worst in all the antisemites that are normally trying to hide. And I don't buy this crap of "there are idiots everywhere" - yes, there are, but there seem to be too many when it comes to hating Jews. There are way too many idiots who hate us and want us dead, so when someone starts the old song of "it's not you, it's your Government" - I know it's me. It has always been me, but it takes an incident in the Middle East to happen so some people will speak up.[/quote]
This is a really manipulative post.

Your saying no one can challenge what an entire state government are doing, that even the national community have condemned - because you feel it’s a personal attack on you.

That’s on you - not me or anyone else that is in disgust at what they are doing to these people.

It's always the same, everything the Palestinians do they deserve to die.
Same lies have been told for years.

Golds Meir said

"There were no such thing as Palestinians,” she was quoted as saying in the Sunday Times and Washington Post in June 1969"

“When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? … It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist,”

There is a convention that you’re not supposed to speak ill of the recently dead, which unfortunately imposes a kind of vow of silence, because there is nothing good to say. He [Ariel Sharon] was a brutal killer; he had one fixed idea in mind which drove him all his life: a greater Israel, as powerful as possible, as few Palestinians as possible.”
-Noam Chomsky, Democracy Now, January 13, 2014

Ariel Sharon, Netenyahu's mentor

@Frazzledfranny you know why I feel like that? I have been living in the UK for 8 years now. Every single time when there is an incident in Israel - you have no idea how many times people (mostly British) asked me to explain why Israeli Government is doing what it is doing. They are angry with ME, they demand an answer from ME. I am thousands mile away, and yet - they direct their anger at me. Is is the same song - "there are idiots everywhere"? Or is it just too many people who are happy to rip any Israeli into pieces just because they are Israeli?

In the end, her attitude towards Palestinians was basically a macho, chauvinist, denialist attitude, which is intrinsically inherent in Zionism,”

Ofir, Israeli musician and blogger