Transgender athletes in sport

[sweetheart]

My dd plays ladies football. Recently she played against a team with a player who looked and sounded very masculine. It has been confirmed since that this player was transgender male to female.

Dh and I have had many conversations about the rights and wrongs of allowing this.

This player had a significant physical advantage.

We would both be really interested to hear peoples thoughts on this

• [Title edited by MNHQ]

Have a look at the feminism boards. There are several threads on this. It's a hot topic right now with a Martina and others speaking out.

Males should not be playing against females.

They have a massive physical advantage.

I'm with Martina Navratilova on this one - it's cheating, plain and simple.

I say that as someone who used to play a lot of football, both women's and mixed. Fine if the game is set up as mixed from the outset with rules on how many men can be on each team, but not otherwise - men are faster and stronger. Incidentally I loved playing mixed five-a-side, which is meant to be non-contact - very skilful, and playing with men really made me raise my game. But a sliding tackle from a 14 stone, 6 foot something bloke in eleven-a-side - bloody dangerous.

It's cheating. In some sports it's downright dangerous to women, and in places like the US girls are missing out on college scholarships because they are being beaten by males.

It’s cheating.

Yes it’s cheating.

Cheating. Definitely.

I was nervous of posting anywhere near the feminist boards for fear of being lynched about bring un-PC...or even worst prejudiced!

There's a reason sports are segregated by sex. It's not fair to have a man playing in a woman's team regardless of how they identify.

I played mixed until age 12 as girls football wasn't a thing when I was growing up. By 12 I was even more shit compared to the boys. It's unfair.

From the limited information we have it seems this player had completed the physical transition so was legally female....I am no expert in these matters!

You will not be lynched on feminism boards for saying that women don't have penises.

sweetheart - come on over to the feminist boards. We're on the same side as you!

Basically there are two schools of feminism - liberal feminism, which is terribly concerned with being PC and woke, and radical feminism and gender-critical feminism, both of which acknowledge that biology matters. It's safe to say most women on the FWR boards here are gender-critical feminists.

When I say we believe biology matters, this is not in the sense sexists think biology matters (because they think biology predetermines what we can accomplish as human beings), but as an explanation of why, in certain circumstances, women are physically more vulnerable than men and thus need women's rights (as distinct from human rights). We're all pretty keen on sex segregation in sports and prisons and overnight accommodation, and open-plan changing rooms. And very meh about woke types who insist that one should talk about pregnant "persons" and menstruating "persons" (or even worse, "menstruators"), rather than women, which is what we are.

I feel for the girls and women who have trained hard their whole lives and shed blood, sweat and tears - only for a big strong transgender person to come along, running throwing and kicking just like a bloke, and undermine their hard work. I find it heartbreaking for them. This will kill women’s sport

No Unihorn you weren’t shit. That’s what sexist men won’t go to think. If you can’t compete with men don’t bother at all.

I'm with Martina on this one. Come join the feminism boards!

The problem with this 'debate', is that it's unanimous. I have never personally met anyone who doesn't think this is cheating and completely wrong.
Have the surgery, sure, do what you like, but if you do so, you forgo the right to play sport.

Imissgmichael I appreciate the vote of confidence I grew up with older brothers so I was quite shit in comparison to 18 year old boys to be fair!

@FermatsTheorem
I’m reeling from your post but I think we’re on same level.
I’m “woke” in the sense that I’m fed up of white male privilege.
I definitely don’t agree with men invading women only spaces.
I've had so many issues with MNHQ as they ignore racism but tiptoe around
Trans activists who are mostly white men asserting their power over women as per usual🤷🏾‍♀️

Ghanagirl - sorry if I've left you reeling, but I agree I think we're on the same level. I think I've read some of the threads you've been on, and I totally agree about tiptoeing round (aka ignoring) racism on this site. I sit there reading some of them thinking "even I as a white person can see how deliberately goady and dog-whistle these posts are - why don't other people on this thread see it?" (I don't want to derail this thread, but I do feel like "intersectionality" is yet another thing the trans juggernaut have appropriated - they've taken a really useful concept about how black and ethnic minority women are typically doubly discriminated against, and stolen it to make out that white male-born individuals are the most discriminated against of all.)

Still, at least it's only football and not MMA. That was a transgender fighter doing that, not surprisingly she beat some poor woman to a pulp.

The only time it would ever be okay is if the person had transitioned before going through a traditional male puberty. It’s during this time that the huge strength gains and muscle gains happen for boys. Otherwise it’s cheating!!

It's a hot topic right now with a Martina

There's only one Martina. Only one MARTINA....

See this goes to highlight a lot of problem I think......I didn't want to say initially what dh and j have been discussing but dh has always been against it and said it was unfair......I always appreciated what he was saying but tried to come at it from the "inclusive" side......what if it was out trans child who wanted to be included in sport etc. I've found myself on the wrong side of things before......not because I am predudice in any way but more because of maybe being unaware of current perceptions and out of the loop so to speak. Our own dd has a girlfriend so it's not like we aren't liberal in a certain sense of the world......but often I find people with strong views on things are very quick to "brand" other people who may have other opinions to add to the discussion.