Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Transgender athletes in sport

300 replies

sweetheart · 21/02/2019 20:24

My dd plays ladies football. Recently she played against a team with a player who looked and sounded very masculine. It has been confirmed since that this player was transgender male to female.

Dh and I have had many conversations about the rights and wrongs of allowing this.

This player had a significant physical advantage.

We would both be really interested to hear peoples thoughts on this

  • [Title edited by MNHQ]
OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
CosmicCanary · 22/02/2019 08:15

I googled and found this....very funny article pink/blue brain

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 08:15

Actually don't Google. Half of Silicone Valley believes that men can be women and the rankings are manipulated so that the GC stuff conveniently gets shoved away.

But do Google an imagr of Hannah Mouncey in a match alongside women. A picyure speaks a thousand words.

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 08:16

image picture

PerfPower · 22/02/2019 08:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Blue5238 · 22/02/2019 08:29

"Trans women don't retain their pre-transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you look"

I agree that it is highly likely that transwomen don't retain their pre transition strength if they have taken hormone treatments. What I find utterly baffling is the idea that this loss of strength makes them physically equal to a woman when it comes to competing at sport. When they retain male skeleton, lung capacity, heart capacity etc. And even on strength alone why is weaker-than-formerly man equal to a woman?

Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 08:39

And nothing can change that!

KMSpico · 22/02/2019 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CosmicCanary · 22/02/2019 09:00

Can I assume your deleted message was one of disagreement KM?

Lumene · 22/02/2019 09:03

From the limited information we have it seems this player had completed the physical transition so was legally female....I am no expert in these matters!

You do not have to complete any kind of physical transition to be legally recognised as the opposite sex.

Lumene · 22/02/2019 09:04

Is this children’s or adult sport?

Lumene · 22/02/2019 09:11

They love this shit over on the feminist boards, you will make their day if you post there. They have put off most people that don't agree with them/are slightly more liberal or even dare to ask a question with their attitudes so they don't get much chance to debate much anymore. I had a look the other day and they all just agree with each other in different words or talking about how amazing Posie is. I know a few mumsnetters in real life, they've all hidden the 'feminist' threads, even the feminists.

This hasn’t been my experience of teading those boards. There’s a variety of opinions and lots of critical thinking. Once you see what some extreme trans activists are doing and how they are going about it, the concerns make much more sense. You have to see it to believe it. I don’t have a lot of time for Posie personally partly as I find her attention/drama seeking, but I do have a lot of time for the space created for discussion on the feminist boards. Worth having a good read and making your own mind up.

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 09:18

Mouncey has previously declared HM's intention not to hold back on hitting female players, and has already broken a woman’s leg during play.

CallMeSirShotsFired · 22/02/2019 09:22

I know a few mumsnetters in real life, they've all hidden the 'feminist' threads, even the feminists.

S'funny how people feel so compelled to announce how they have "hidden the feminist boards". What do you want, a round of applause?

Yet stranger still are the sheer numbers of people who find MN via those boards; and the number who are seeing this issue and agreeing that men shouldn't invade women's spaces, sports, jobs and lives in this way.

Now, excuse me, I must go and tell everyone what boards I have hidden, I'm sure they are desperate to know...

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 09:25

Oh and here's another image to lock away. It's a level basketball court after all.
Why does a middle aged male bodied (giant) want to play on a teenage girls' team?

Transgender athletes in sport
Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CallMeSirShotsFired · 22/02/2019 09:28

Here are three pictures of Hannah Mouncey.

Clearly they bring no advantage whatsoever to the full physical contact sport Hmm

Transgender athletes in sport
Transgender athletes in sport
Transgender athletes in sport
Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 09:30

I know, Aero. If the girls/parents object then they are branded bigots.

Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 09:31

It is a safety issue too, nobody cares about women's safety just bowing to being PC and adhering to social ideology of the time.

FermatsTheorem · 22/02/2019 09:33

aeroflot it's not a children's team, it's a college team. Those are adult (young adult, but fully grown) women - in fact probably taller-than-average adult women, because women's college basketball in the US is immensely competitive, places sought after, it attracts big audiences and even gets televised, and carries sports scholarships.

In fact the 50-something year old in the shot was apparently the recipient of a sports scholarship intended for women, and (to double the anger factor) should not have been elegible, because they'd already had one as a young human being prior to transition (desperately trying to get the facts across without running foul of mumsnet's misgendering rules) in their 20s, which should have ruled them out from being the recipient of a second one.

DramaFreeLife · 22/02/2019 09:35

Worth having a good read and making your own mind up

I did used to read and post. I was shouted down a fair few times for pointing out anti trans views. I don't have particularly extreme views, remained polite and can absolutely see issues with self ID but it was very blatant that if I was happy to use people's preferred pronouns and didn't give them a satisfactory answer to their 'what makes someone a woman' question then they just ganged up until I gave up posting.

Many don't seem to be feminists as I understand that term. Many are just anti trans, bigoted women who just keep saying 'adult human female' to anything you say and class Posie as a hero instead of like you say, an attention seeking woman who loves the drama and 'fame' and I think actually damages what they are trying to achieve.

mammoon · 22/02/2019 09:35

100% agree it's cheating and it's desperately unfair to girls and women. What chance have we got of winning anything if males are allowed to play on our teams? I read that Serena Williams wouldn't be able to beat any of the top 200 ranked male players! so if we allow self-ID in sports, we won't have any more Serenas!!! It's unreal that anyone can think this okay.

So sorry for your DD, OP. It must feel so unfair and threatening.

Ofalltheginjoints · 22/02/2019 09:37

I’ve posted about this previously but I think it’s relevent, I used to compete internally in Rowing, at one competition there was a transwoman who was competing in the appropriate women’s category, I’ll call her Leslie for ease but not her real name.

Within indoor racing you generally race within categories based on sex, age or disability, sometimes weight as well, within the same category as Leslie were female members of the British armed forces, these women were at the peak of physical fitness from their jobs and were party of their service rowing team, the women and their male forces team mates, along with athletes from other nations found this hugely unfair to include Leslie in the race against the women but nothing could be done to change the rule of where Leslie would race.

Initially I felt horrified for Leslie that people were trying to stop her race until I saw her about to compete, despite any transition her body was undeniably Male, she was much taller and had more muscle mass, all advantages in a sport like rowing, the race happened and Leslie won with ease despite being over 10 years older then the oldest women in her category which also included an Olympic athelete from another nation.

Men, including transwomen have no place in women’s sport, in my sport it was lucky there was no risk of getting hurt unlike in contact sports but there is no fairness for competition and women and girls deserve the right to compete fairly

Also, why do you never see transmen elite athletes if biology doesn’t make much difference? Precisely because it does and women cannot compete

TruffleShuffles · 22/02/2019 09:38

It’s quite simple really sports are segregated by sex not gender. It’s nothing to do with any sort of equality/moral obligation/political correctness it is basic science. If you are born as the female sex you compete against women if you are born as the male sex you compete against men, no hormone treatment or surgery can change that.