Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Transgender athletes in sport

300 replies

sweetheart · 21/02/2019 20:24

My dd plays ladies football. Recently she played against a team with a player who looked and sounded very masculine. It has been confirmed since that this player was transgender male to female.

Dh and I have had many conversations about the rights and wrongs of allowing this.

This player had a significant physical advantage.

We would both be really interested to hear peoples thoughts on this

  • [Title edited by MNHQ]
OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 21/02/2019 22:35

“The only time it would ever be okay is if the person had transitioned before going through a traditional male puberty. It’s during this time that the huge strength gains and muscle gains happen for boys. Otherwise it’s cheating!!”

Perhaps so, but then we have a whole other set of issues...

UrsulaPandress · 21/02/2019 22:38

I peak transed a friend today on the issue of men in women's sport. Go me.

Mrskeats · 21/02/2019 22:40

It’s cheating #teammartina

FermatsTheorem · 21/02/2019 22:42

To my mind, this is doing inclusion right - Jaiyeh Saelua is a transwoman who plays (played? I think she may have retired from international football now) international men's football.

She's asking men's football to make space for her, not imposing her (biologically male) physique on women's football.

KMSpico · 22/02/2019 04:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ncaa · 22/02/2019 04:48

To echo others it's cheating, womens sports should be sex segregated.

DramaFreeLife · 22/02/2019 05:13

I was nervous of posting anywhere near the feminist boards for fear of being lynched about bring un-PC...or even worst prejudiced!

They love this shit over on the feminist boards, you will make their day if you post there. They have put off most people that don't agree with them/are slightly more liberal or even dare to ask a question with their attitudes so they don't get much chance to debate much anymore. I had a look the other day and they all just agree with each other in different words or talking about how amazing Posie is. I know a few mumsnetters in real life, they've all hidden the 'feminist' threads, even the feminists.

It's not cheating if it's not against the rules. I think, although I'm not sure, that if hormone levels are at levels set out in the rules then transgender people can compete. I'm sure the rules will be looked at again and again as people have different views on this and inevitably it gets talked about.

ValleyoftheHorses · 22/02/2019 05:20

Women who used to be men, or men who think they are women (to me the difference is the surgery- pre op they are still men as women can’t have a penis!) should play sport against other trans people. They can’t play against actual women, that isn’t safe and it’s cheating- if they win it’s hardly a win is it?
Men who used to be women or women who think they are men could play trans sport or against actual men- I don’t think it’s safe and they won’t win!
I respect people’s right to identify and live as they want but the actual sex shouldn’t be discriminated against in the process.

Steeve · 22/02/2019 05:24
  • The problem with this 'debate', is that it's unanimous. I have never personally met anyone who doesn't think this is cheating and completely wrong. Have the surgery, sure, do what you like, but if you do so, you forgo the right to play sport.*

Same, it disgusts me, am with Martina on this.

Lemoncakestrudel · 22/02/2019 05:25

I’m pretty sure we don’t spend all our time going on about how wonderful posie is.Hmm

Is there something wrong about having one place where we are free to say that men are not and cannot be women?

MrsJamin · 22/02/2019 05:33

@kmspico, what did you mean by "It's amazing watching the posters tie themselves in knots when they the list the very different ways men and women are different but refuse to believe that there can be innate sex-based mental differences." - what innate sex-based differences are you talking about? You do know brains develop according to environment because of neural plasticity, right?

penisbeakers · 22/02/2019 05:55

Taking estrogen reduces strength in people who transition, but apparently most bigots tend to overlook this. As usual.

Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.

KMSpico · 22/02/2019 05:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsJamin · 22/02/2019 07:47

@KMSpico tell me a brain difference between men and women that is proven outside of socialisation differences. And yes I have a first class degree in psychology so quite happy to chat about this.

O4FS · 22/02/2019 07:53

Men have no place in women’s sport.

Add mixed sex by all means and let sports people choose who they complete with, but keep it defined by sex.

nolongersurprised · 22/02/2019 07:55

“Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.”

Does taking oestrogen also make them shorter, change their pelvic bones, reduce their heart size, lung capacity and reduce their haematocrit?

I don’t need google to explain physiology to me, thanks.

CosmicCanary · 22/02/2019 08:01

Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha it is not a myth. Look at any transwomen in sport and you can see the physical differences between them and females.

Helen Mouncey
Fallon Fox
Rachel McKinnon

To name but a few who have a male physiology and it has given them the advantage competing against females.

It is not bigoted to call out cheating.
Sports are segregated by sex for a very obvious reason stop lying that it does not matter.

Aeroflotgirl · 22/02/2019 08:01

I agree with you, it isen't fair because of the physical advantage of biological males, which transwomen are! I go to a mixed kickboxing class, and this week, we were sparring, moving along partners after 5 mins. I am 5ft 2 and weigh 10.5 stone, I was partnered with this 6ft 3 man built like a brick shithouse, who kept raining strong punches down on me, and I was trying to defend them, and get some moves in, it was so difficult as he was very big and quite heavy handed.

If I was fighting somebody in the ring, I would be having a partner of the same sex, height, weight and ability. Even though they call themselves women, they are still transwomen, they are still biological males with the physical strength to match, nothing, no operation or tablets can change that.

Battytwatty · 22/02/2019 08:03

Hope this attaches as I’ve never done this before but I thought this was very interesting which I saw on Twitter the other day.

Transgender athletes in sport
JacquesHammer · 22/02/2019 08:04

There’s no debate.

If you have or were born with a penis there’s no place for you in women’s sport.

YANBU OP

O4FS · 22/02/2019 08:08

My DS could declare himself female tomorrow and there is no way I would allow him to join a girls team.

He’s fit, strong and fast. He also would understand that it wouldn’t be fair.

Battytwatty · 22/02/2019 08:08

You can’t tell me Rachel doesn’t have a clear physical advantage here

Transgender athletes in sport
titchy · 22/02/2019 08:11

Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.

Oh yes Google. That revered peer reviewed Scientific journal cited by experts in all biological specialisms, and therefore absolutely true with impeccable research ability and standards.

Oh no wait....

HandsOffMyRights · 22/02/2019 08:13

I don't need Google to tell me it's cheating - I have eyes.

But if you Google Fallon Fox you will see that FF gave a woman a broken eye socket and concussion. Or maybe Google Hannah Mouncey.

Clearly it's not 'just' testosterone. And those who try to convince you otherwise really do believe the Emperor has clothes on.

nolongersurprised · 22/02/2019 08:15

“Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.”

penis see? We don’t believe you. Why don’t you show us those awesome robust studies that enable us to ignore what we can see and convince it?

You’re the one making the ludicrous claims that tranwomen don’t have male bodies. why don’t you back it up?