AIBU to be extremely proud of Justine Roberts & Mumsnet right now?

[EmpressOfJurisfiction]

Open access link. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-transgender-activists-try-to-curb-free-speech-on-site-z3sr3nf6q?shareToken=ade388be59ac427155003eff83c5158c

“Transgender activists have contacted Mumsnet advertisers and said they will be organising a boycott of their products if they don’t remove their advertising from Mumsnet,” Roberts said.

“A significant minority of our users feel very strongly about women’s rights and very uneasy [about the proposals]. This is an issue that needs to be discussed and that’s why we’re prepared to take any potential advertising hit.”

I've realised now FWR's been reinstated that it's mainly FWR threads I click on, even if don't post a lot on here.

Active Convos was SO unbelievably boring for a couple of days!

It is lively

I always wondered what Xenia would think of all this...

Xenia is back, Katherina!

Saw her posting on a couple of threads at the weekend

Yes, that's what I mean Oleanna - she posted on this one^^

I hope she joins the debate!

Can someone explain to me why it is that in all the reporting of the judge telling Maria to use preferred pronouns it's reported as something "she doesn't believe to be true"? AFAIK, TW is legally male, I'm more concerned that the judge expected her to say something that was legally inaccurate!

While I'm on the subject, why was TW tried as "Tara Wolf"? I thought they'd changed their name from their birth name to "Tara Wood". Have they only legally changed their first name, or have they not legally changed their name at all? If it's the latter, why were they tried as Tara at all?

Genuinely not trying to be "TERF"y, just trying to get my head around the legalities.

There was a document that was referred to on one of the FWR threads about it. Have a root through Feminism Chat from last week.

Whilst it is absolutely fucking fantastic that Justine stepped up and voiced an opinion that represents so many on MN, let’s not forget that it is the voice of the many intelligent and passionate MNers who have expressed this view so articulately that has given Justine the confidence to convey it.

It's a hard balance to get right both for the law and for websites - the freedom of speech v legislation or website rules which curb it.

It must be very hard in court as if you don't keep in with the judge it can be prison and contempt of court even if the judge is being silly about something. if the law say someone is male then we can surely call them male in court.

Women do get told all the time to shut up so being drowned out at work, told how to speak in court, told the right way to say things etc is sadly still part of a lot of women's lives both in their relationships if their husband suddenly comes out as trans, in court where so many judges are male and in charge there and MN is one of the very few places where women are in a majority and can express their (often very different) views without men telling them to be quiet and listen to the men.

Just read the whole thread and wiped away some tears because it felt like the bit at the end of a movie (thinking of Dead Poet’s Society and the ilk...) where everyone shows big supportive love. And then Xenia turns up!

Gotta love MN.

Oh wowee, is that the real Xenia, coming over all Spartacus?

Nice to see you back Xenia

Thank you Justine and MNHQ

I rarely post on the feminist threads as I don't feel as well informed or articulate as many other posters, but they are my first port of call when I look at MN - which is most days.

Like others have said, I think the 'significant minority' might be a significant majority'..... I sincerely hope so.

It is always worth a good lurk. I now know about Article 11 of the Convention on Human Rights

that Spectator article is fantastic!

(Thanks. Nice to be back particularly with JR good stand in these matters. Quite a lot of people have always wanted to silence women and MN in its way helps ensure that is harder to do as there is a good critical mass of us)

You know your infamous island Xenia....can we MN women all move there to get away from the current madness?

( Ah yes; well I am afraid I sold it for about what I paid for it - there were too many invaders. I am however living without any men for the first time in my life this year (twin boys went to university and their big borther moved out and I've not moved a man in; and that's terribly nice actually. I recommend it, not that I have anything against men but it's very peaceful and uncomplicated and how my granny and her mother ended up too - both widowed fairly young in their cases)

It certainly sounds appealing Xenia! Sadly I have at least ten years of my DSs being here before they are off to Uni...

@Xenia and @TanteRose now there’s two lovely blasts from the past!

Aww AfricanPlume - mentioned in the same breath as Xenia , I'm honored

It must be very hard in court as if you don't keep in with the judge it can be prison and contempt of court even if the judge is being silly about something

Would a witness have right of appeal (or anything similar) if they were found in contempt of court by the judge for acknowledging that someone is legally male? As in, would there be other judges that would be able to challenge this or is the judge of that case an absolute authority in their own courtroom?

It's not my area. Judges try very hard to be fair. I would imagine in most cases most of us are perfectly willing to accept the gender identity of people and their names unless it is a case about someone using a fake name, stealing an identity or indeed a case about gender identity.

There was a judge who resigned I think last year for trouble caused when he raised issues about his lost luggage in court where one party was British Airways. If I were in court with someone I thought was male I would probably just fudge the issue by saying this person or something like that. Judges are not absolute authorities but it is best not to get the wrong side of them. They even say if the judge is hungry i.e. before lunch you might sometimes get a different result than after so it pays to be on the safe side in these things.

That is a lovely thought, and is one of my dreams - no men living with me. At the moment I have dh, who is OK, and my brother, who is also OK. Not great, but OK. I'd rather it was just me though, and dd (who'll be off to Uni fairly soon and will only come home for washing!).