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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
stealtheatingtunnocks · 23/07/2017 10:11

"I am a feminist. I've been female for a long time now. It'd be stupid not to be on my own side." ~Maya Angelou.

Seems like a sensible way to pick a side, really.

Witsender · 23/07/2017 10:13


GnusSitOnCanoes · 23/07/2017 10:15

Assigned, is there a formal way to protest? (As in a lobby group or similar we can support - or just a matter of lobbying our own MPs?)

formerbabe · 23/07/2017 10:17

I don't understand. Birth certificates don't state what gender a person is...they state what sex you are... male or female.

Stop the world. I want to get off.

ThymeLord · 23/07/2017 10:17

Is it a case of lobbying MPs? What can be done? I'll speak out wherever I can.

Floggingmolly · 23/07/2017 10:18

This is fucking terrifying Hmm

Mummymummyme · 23/07/2017 10:19

I was okay with it until they mentioned potentially allowing so called 'non binary' people to assign their gender as X. Ridiculous.

Mummymummyme · 23/07/2017 10:21

Sorry just re-read that it says sex and not gender. Absolutely mad, sex is primitive and biological. Identifying your sex as female won't stop you from getting prostate cancer. Are people not thinking of the medical implications here?

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/07/2017 10:22

With reference to the "national survey of LGBT people" I would also like to point out that in this context LGBT is highly likely to mean just the T.

I'd be astonished if they actually care that a lot of lesbians think this is a terrible idea.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:23


The consultation is open to LGBT only.
Women who are not part of this group don't get a say.

Fuck. That. Shit

We need to find a way to get our voices heard. Anyone with ideas, please post

@MNHQ - will you support us now?

OP posts:
zinniazuri · 23/07/2017 10:24

All official documents state 'M/F' for male or female.

A non-binary person is still male or female, not X.

A transwoman is still a male, a transman is still a female, so why do we need to change any birth documents?

MrsWooster · 23/07/2017 10:25

I don't understand. Birth certificates don't state what gender a person is...they state what sex you are... male or female
Yep, sounds about right. Women do not have penises. Men do not have vaginas. There need to be places for transwomen and for transmen but women-only and indeed men-only spaces aren't them

AfunaMbatata · 23/07/2017 10:25

If this goes through then I'm going to change mine. Might get a pay rise out of it Smile ..

derxa · 23/07/2017 10:26

That's women's sport up the creek then.

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:26

So.....what we can we do?

Email our mps? Petition? Peaceful protest?

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:29

In a years time no one will rescommend womens aid as a safe space for people who come here asking for support when they are abused and raped. Because womens aid will have to have people with penis' answering their calls etc.

Where will we go?

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 10:30

The consultation is open to LGBT only. Women who are not part of this group don't get a say. We need to find a way to get our voices heard. Anyone with ideas, please post

We will have to claim that we are transmen? Or come up with some nonbinary bullshit?

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 10:30

Me too @AfunaMbatata

In the meantime, MPs need to be nagged to death about the difference between gender and sex. That article is sheer gobbledygook because they're being used interchangeably there.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:30

@MNHQ - will you support us now?

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side
OP posts:
SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 10:31

And of course a birth certificate recording "gender" would be a nonsense too. As @formerbabe says, we've never had state records of gender.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 10:31

I agree Mummy. It is important to know someone's biological sex for health purposes but what reason is there to know what gender people identify as?

We should treat people equally regardless of their gender or how they present so why does it matter if someones presentation doesn't match their birth certificate?

Sex and gender are completely different things.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:31


"We will have to claim that we are transmen? Or come up with some nonbinary bullshit?"

GENIUS! I think I love you

OP posts:
BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 23/07/2017 10:33

"The consultation is open to LGBT only."
"Women who are not part of this group do not get a say"

How exactly is LGBTQIABCD membership going to be quantified in this?

PlayOnWurtz · 23/07/2017 10:33

I fall firmly on the side of women on this issue. My MP has previously stated they fall on the side of the transagenda

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 10:35

I really think we need to get properly organised. Mumsnet might not be the right place for it, they seemed to pander to the trans bullies in the past (but I might be wrong)

I know there are a lot of feminist groups on facebook, but maybe we could start a new one specifically to fight this bullshit. we need a strategy, proper planning, possibly a huge campaign

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