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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
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SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 10:36

DD says if it comes in, she's going to demand to be reregistered as "rabbit gender". (She's 16 for context). She might be onto something there. Either all delusions and nonsenses should be officially recognised or we should stick to recording biological sex and let everyone live their lives as eccentrically as they wish.

PovertyPain · 23/07/2017 10:37

I have no faith that this won't be stopped, because those women that speak out will be called bigots, prevented from having their voices heard and receive death threats. This will frighten other women and prevent many of them from speaking out.

Our children are already being brainwashed with this bullshit and believe that our generation aren't 'moving with the times'. Children are a nice soft target for these people so by being permitted to spread these male to female, and visa versa, fantasies in school, they've already started this indoctrination. Unfortunately young females won't realise the risk this poses to them until it's too late and, as what happened when I was young (70s), they will be told they're over reacting. I'm genuinely really upset by the thought that our daughters are going to grow up in a society that puts females at the bottom of the list of those that need protection, AGAIN.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 10:37

How exactly is LGBTQIABCD membership going to be quantified in this?

Self identification surely? Wink

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:38

OK. Calling all lurking MPs and journalists: take note

I will not vote for ANY party that supports this regressive bullshit

Anyone started a petition yet? I think we need a Westminster one so that it can be debated. Then we need to lobby MPs and making very fucking clear that they will be out of a seat if they support this shit

OP posts:
PlayOnWurtz · 23/07/2017 10:38

I think everyone identifying as non binary to skew the survey is a great idea!
It shows how far feminism has come that that men feel so threatened by us they need to do this.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 23/07/2017 10:40

"The women's movement uk" is quite a 'sensible' fb group, though it's quite small at present.

It's not a radfem only group like a lot of others, but it is for females only afaik

(It's not a secret group, but if I'm not supposed to be passing on the name here, please report my post - I have no issues with my post being deleted)

alltouchedout · 23/07/2017 10:40

You won't speak for all mumsnetters, many of us are on the opposite side to you in this argument. I will be very disappointed if MNHQ decide to rally to your cause.

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:41

Dh declared he is transpecies this morning and is now a badger.

Says he has no legal repsonibility for anything and will live in the woods, even if the council dont let people camp in the woods near us. Its tough they have to accept he identifys as a badger. As do his employers, me, the kids etc.

I am glad he is as furious about this as I am. And he sees the ridiculous-ness of it.

How is the small amount of progess women have made crumbling so fast?

gingerpusscat · 23/07/2017 10:42

Well played, patriarchy, well played.

So now my XX chromosomes, vagina, vulva etc denote my status as oppressor of the XY with the cock and balls, who get to bully their way into defining the social and legal boundaries of my sex and gender.

Well, that's never happened before!

Is this what it means to live in the post-truth era?

PlayOnWurtz · 23/07/2017 10:43

Can the Rachel dolzeal fiasco not be used to out advantage on this?

formerbabe · 23/07/2017 10:43

So we need to decide if we like pink stuff and make up or football and cars...then we pick our gender... chromosomes and sexual/reproductive organs are irrelevant?

Dawnedlightly · 23/07/2017 10:44

Can someone link to where it says the consultation is open to LBTQ only?
If it's true then we need to mobilise lesbians.

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:44

You won't speak for all mumsnetters, many of us are on the opposite side to you in this argument. I will be very disappointed if MNHQ decide to rally to your cause.

Genuinely please can you explain hpw you dont mind people with penis'

Access womens rape centres
Womens refugees
Womens safe spaces
Womens sports

If a transwoman does not want to use a male changing room because they feel unsafe getting changed near people who have penis'. Why should women have ti get changed near someone with a penis? IE a transwoman.

Why does a transwomans rights to have space away from people with penis', trump womens rights to want the same thing?

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 10:44

No but I think she speaks for a majority of MNers @alltouchedout

Remember the olympics policy threads? They weren't niche or evenly balanced . That was a howl of protest.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:44

Alltouchedout

Turkey
Christmas

OP posts:
FlaviaAlbia · 23/07/2017 10:46

There's a small but steady stream of news reports of men being done for voyeurism using cameras etc. Can you imagine what opportunities this will offer to those who would previously have been arrested for going into women's changing rooms?

And prisons? At the minute some are objecting to male prisoners who change gender and demand to be moved suspecting they're playing the system. Will they just be moved now as soon as they assert they're a woman? Madness.

46% of women in prison report having suffered domestic violence.

Women serve prison sentences for minor offences; most women entering prison under sentence (84%) have committed a non-violent offence and theft offences accounted for nearly half (48%) of all custodial sentences given to women in 2016.
Most women entering prison serve short sentences. 70% of sentenced women entering prison in 2016 were serving six months or less.

www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:46

beyond how do you get in that group?

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 10:47

Perhaps we need to start invading men only spaces, so they get a taste of it themselves.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:47

Plus we need to highlight the primogeniture law, which says that women identifying as men as not entitled to claim titles, (male) inheritances or sit on the House of Lords

OP posts:
BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 23/07/2017 10:47

Ask to join, saiman, I think that's all there is to it?

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:49

There was no option to do that.

I am not great in fb though. Maybe its me Grin

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 10:49

alltouchedout why does it matter what gender someone identifies as? What purpose does knowing that serve? Will people be treated differently according to gender? Surely that's pretty backward?

Knowing biological sex matters for health purposes. Gender id not so much.

CaoNiMartacus · 23/07/2017 10:50

One of the most offensive elements of this is that it's being rolled out to coincide with the anniversary of decriminalising homosexuality. The implication is that if you don't support it, you'll be on the wrong side of history.

As a lesbian, I don't believe that the T has any rightful place within LGB.

I will do what I can to fight this.

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:50

Found the button....it was me Shock

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 23/07/2017 10:51
Grin
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