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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:51

All my gay collegues. Male and female believe the 'T' should be removed as well. Hopefully they wull all oppose it in the consulatation. Wonder how this consultation is happening.

SummerKelly · 23/07/2017 10:52

I think either we support segregation by sex or we don't. If we think it's a good idea in general that penises are not allowed in women's changing rooms why is this? On what grounds would we make exceptions? I can't imagine my teenage DD feeling comfortable in a changing room on her own with someone who appears to be a man. Nor would I for that matter. Everything that women over the years have fought for as a result of male violence could just be lost in one piece of legislation. It's depressing.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 10:52

You cannot protect sex and gender. Sex is a protected status because men, as a class, treat women like shit.

This will end our right to name that problem.

There will be an end to the gender pay gap, but all top earners will have penises.

This act reduces being a woman to a sexist stereotype, a sexist stereotype that I have fought against my whole life.

MNHQ please stand up for women. I know it isn't easy but it is right. Standing up for women has always been hard, that's how we gained the right to vote.

Don't fudge this, pick a side.

LittleBooInABox · 23/07/2017 10:52

This stupid stuff opens up the policy for abuse. Leave the system as it is. There is two sexes - male or female. I refuse to engage on this social justice warrior mentality.

Why are the rules being changed. I thought only America had these hair brained ideas!?! Wtf..

Inertia · 23/07/2017 10:53

We need to go in to this with evidence of harm that has already been caused to women and girls. I'm sure someone must have begun compiling a list of convictions and cases so far - does anyone know of one?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/07/2017 10:53

Still Spartacus.

PlayOnWurtz · 23/07/2017 10:53

I don't know any gay person who wants the T there either. I know a few B people who do but the B people I know have never been in a same sex relationship so...

Saiman · 23/07/2017 10:54

Off for a spartacus addition to my name.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:54

Alltouchedout
Why would you support an ideology that calls lesbians bigots and vagina fetishists for not wanting to suck 'lady dick'?

OP posts:
Wallahibillahitallahi · 23/07/2017 10:54

I am afraid to say, it is too late for protest. Everyone was too busy being right-on, liberal and cool

Now we need to think about ways to protect women WITHIN this pot of shit

Rumandraisin1 · 23/07/2017 10:54

This is absolutely terrible for women. As a few examples, men with stronger male bodies will be able to compete in women's sport, even more male rapists will be getting transfers to women's prisons (this is already happening and an expert reporting to a parliamentary select committee said that pretty much all those asking to be transferred to women's prisons were violent and sex offenders - they don't need to have had any surgery for this is - these are 100% in tact males with penises), there has been at least one case so far of a 'transwoman' suing a rape crisis for not allowing 'her' to train as a rape counsellor and men gaining access to women's refuges - vulnerable women who have suffered at the hands of male violence/rape who aren't comfortable with this are the ones who have to leave.

We aren't talking here about legal protection for people who have had gender reassignment surgery - that already exists - we are talking about any man being able to just declare that they identify as female.

People hold up Danielle Muscato as an example but 'she' is definitely not alone. I have been to women only LGBT events attended by 'women' with beards and penises - this change is already happening in practice but this would solidify it into law.

Sorry....I only meant to write a short post saying I agree!

LakieLady · 23/07/2017 10:55

I've just identified as male and find this is giving me a pain in my non-existent bollocks. Will doctors be required to consider gynae conditions if a patient who identifies as female comes into the surgery with abdo pain? Will they want to be called in for mammograms and cervical smears?

If we have clients who can't have female workers because of risk to staff, will we have to send females if the client starts identifying as female?

If it was April 1st, these proposals would have given me a good laugh. As it's not, it's bloody ridiculous.

user1498911589 · 23/07/2017 10:55

Can somebody explain this simply for those bears like me of little brain?

formerbabe · 23/07/2017 10:56

Everyone was too busy being right-on, liberal and cool

Absolutely this!

Calling someone a bigot is like a modern day witch hunt.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 10:57

alltouchedout please explain why my daughter must undress in front of biological males. Why she must compete in sport alongside biological males. Why she can be overlooked for a job as it has been given to a woman with a penis.

Please explain what makes a male, with a penis a woman, is it the dress or the lipstick?

Lastly, tell me what you believe a woman to be.

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 10:58

I don't believe that the T has any rightful place within LGB

I absolutely agree with this.

BuffyChiro · 23/07/2017 10:58

I will also be really disappointed if MNHQ rallies to your cause. Thankfully, I think TERFs are v much the minority - despite being extremely vocal. This gender bill would be an amazing step forward for trans rights. You are indeed on the wrong side of history.

Also, why are you so obsessed with penises?

Wallahibillahitallahi · 23/07/2017 10:58

inertia there are lists. Apparently we are bigots for compiling the lists. Examples are always dismissed as 'not all trans people' and believe me there are very very very many examples. Sexual predators go to extraordinary lengths to groom and molest girls and women. It really shouldn't be a shock that they are suprised to wear frocks and wigs to do so

See the Facebook page; This Never Happens

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 10:59

The the term 'female penis' gives me the rage. There is nothing female about a penis.

YoureNotASausage · 23/07/2017 11:00

I'm fine with it. I would like to see the removal of segregation by gender ultimately. There are just people. And people need to be protected from criminals and illegal activities, not from a group of people who simply identify as a different gender than they were born. I feel like I will have greater freedom as a woman if woman as a definition for me becomes broader and less restrictive. None of this changes a jot who we are for any of us, men, women or trans people, it just changes how we are 'allowed' to live. I know mumsnet feels differently to me.

BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 23/07/2017 11:00

The world has officially gone mad.
I would side with the DH above and self identify as a badger but I'm worried about the cull

gingerpusscat · 23/07/2017 11:01

One thing I simply cannot understand: why do those born male but who don't identify as male simply seek to broaden the definition of 'male.'? I see the whole thing as completely reactionary. Why is the definition of 'woman' to be expanded to include the bepenised, rather than the narrowness of 'man' expanded and challenged to embrace those with penises who feel they don't fit in?

CastIronCookware · 23/07/2017 11:01

I agree with @Wallahibillahitallahi - it's too late for protest now. The battle for trans rights to supersede women's rights has been "won", because very few women showed up to defend themselves, and the law is being updated to reflect society.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 11:01

Also, why are you so obsessed with penises?

Hmm

You've not been paying attention, have you?

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 23/07/2017 11:02

I don't think mnhq will support this either way - they won't take feminism's "side", but they won't censor us either.

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