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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 23/07/2017 11:51

It's really quite straightforward.

Want to get a job as an accountant but have been turned down because you're non-passing transgender? Want to rent a flat but have been turned down because you're non-passing transgender? Both totally wrong and discriminatory and I'm happy to stand beside you.

Don't want to get reassignment surgery? I've read up the pdfs giving information to patients - I can 100% see why you wouldn't want to do that.

But decided to retain your penis and wanting to work in a rape crisis centre? Or play front row forward in a women's rugby team? Or demanding you get housed in a women's prison after you've used your penis to rape women? No fucking way.

And as for lowering the age for cross sex-hormones to 16 - are these people aware of the class action law suit on the use of lupron (puberty blocker)? It takes healthy young women's bones and turns them into the crumbling mess of an 80 year old with advanced osteoporosis - it has literally crippled women. No way should healthy 12 year olds be being given this shit because their parents suffer from Munchausen's by proxy.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 11:52

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/its-dangerous-and-wrong-to-tell-all-children-theyre-gender-fluid-2/

I don't even care if Melanie Phillips wrote this.

The Gloves Are Off

OP posts:
Rumandraisin1 · 23/07/2017 11:52

wrenika no not all trans women are predatory (just like I know loads of men who aren't predatory) but statistically male bodied people commit the vast majority of assaults and sexual offences on women. Furthermore, trans people already have legal protection but this law will broaden it out to make it it easy for any predatory male to identify as female for his own purposes - I actually think it will make things worse for genuine trans people who will receive a backlash from this.

There seems to be an assumption that we are all backwards people who have never met a trans person, don't understand the issues etc. I have been part of the LGBT community for over 20 years, know plenty of trans people, have attended many talks and events on trans issues.

I initially assumed that anyone who opposed any of this recent 'progress' was a bigot and didn't really listen to what they were saying (not really helped by a minority making derogatory comments about all trans people) - but having been educated I now see the dangers of this. That doesn't mean I hate trans people - neither do the trans people who oppose this shit but they get shouted down and threatened by the TRAs like the rest of us.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 11:52

wrenika

Thats incorrect. If someone wants to be called 'her' i am happy to oblige. That doesnt mean i am happy with the rest.

LurkingHusband · 23/07/2017 11:54

Perhaps we need a referendum ? Seems the surest way to settle things.

fakenamefornow · 23/07/2017 11:54

wrenika

I've known loads and loads of transwomen in my life, almost all of them are immediately identifiable as such, very, very few 'pass'.

RunningWild12 · 23/07/2017 11:54

I could cry with rage. I feel so powerless as we have all been so silenced it's impossible to know how to organise. I'm in a trade union but too fearful to bring this issue up at meetings. So many people will support it cos they think there being kind. I don't believe folk realise gender identity is solely about a feeling which cannot be defined without reference to sex stereotypes. That is gives men access to women's spaces, that it erases the meaning of woman. Still don't know how we discuss this as we are no platformed, hounded as bigots and TERFs.

StatelessPrincess · 23/07/2017 11:58

wrenika I don't think most people who oppose this bill have a problem with genuine transwomen, I don't, but I'm hugely opposed to this bill because it's not actually about giving trans people rights. It will give creeps and voyeurs legal protection and oppress real women.

I'm a Muslim, I don't think any women should have to share spaces that are currently just for women with men though. I don't think this bill is fair on anyone really, including genuine trans women. It sort of trivialises gender dysphoria and also what it means to be a biological woman.
And I have no need or desire to pray with men Hmm

Notcontent · 23/07/2017 11:58

How is this going to work with sport?

My daughter does a competitive sport and competes for medals. Does this mean that in the future she would be racing against a boy who identifies as female???

Diamondlife · 23/07/2017 11:59

Nothing will stop this.
The LGBTQIA movement is too big and powerful now, supported ( ironically ) by feminists over the years.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 12:01

Allowing sex to be changed on birth certificates is transphobic. It's erasing. Nope, no trans people here, just men and women.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:01

This will have very little impact on wealthy people, I assume?

They pay for private hospital rooms, have lawyers to avoid prison, refuges etc.

hackmum · 23/07/2017 12:01

wrenika One question. Are you happy with Ian Huntley deciding he identifies as female and being transferred to a women's prison?

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:03

Diamondlife, yes, I'm feeling duped by that.

MorrisZapp · 23/07/2017 12:03

So the 700th tennis seed can now win Wimbledon by saying 'I'm a woman'.

Hurrah for progress.

MorrisZapp · 23/07/2017 12:04

Part of me thinks great, bring it on. Because when normal people realise what the real world consequences of this madness are, the backlash will be visible from outer space.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 12:05

To a lot of males this is a sexual fetish, is it really appropriate that they are allowed access to female spaces? Lisa Hauxwell, Davina Aryton, should they be allowed access to female spaces, if so why?

Sex is a biological reality, gender is an old fashioned stereotype. Men and women should be able to dress how they like and love who they like, without denying biological reality.

Standing up for women is not transphobic. Throwing my daughters rights away is misogynistic bullshit. The abuse that lesbians are getting because they don't want to have sex with males is disgusting.

So many terfs are lesbians, you know the L in LGBT.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 23/07/2017 12:05

Yes, and it's not just elite women's sport that will be screwed. Take a sport at amateur level where those of us who are a bit rubbish are in it for the love of it (me and football when I was younger). Suppose you play women's rugby - and suddenly you're faced with an opposing team where two of their front row forwards are transmen. Would you go into a scrum against them knowing the size and strength discrepancy was so great there was a very real danger of you coming out of it with serious spinal injuries?

MudGolum · 23/07/2017 12:07

I'm with you.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 12:08

My daughter does a competitive sport and competes for medals. Does this mean that in the future she would be racing against a boy who identifies as female???

That's how it works in the states, males are winning races as they identify as girls. No hormones, no surgery, just a bit of lip gloss and an inner feeling.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 12:08

I'm happy for anyone to self-identify as what they want, and the legal options to do so should be available to them. I don't have any issue at all with it, and am happy to support the LGBTQ+ community on this matter, and I say that as a feminist.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 12:09

Male wins girls state championship

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 12:11

Babycham, a movement that takes away females right is not feminism.

HamletsSister · 23/07/2017 12:11

I was in a pub last night. There was a trans woman who told us she is 6ft 11. Was also wearing very high heels. There is no way I would feel safe alongside her in a changing room. And I have not survived rape or assault.

Still Spartacus.

sleighbellend · 23/07/2017 12:11

BabychamSocialist - I'm really not trying to be rude or playing dumb, but when you read threads like this, do you really not sympathise with any of the other points raised? Do you not care if a woman has to see a biologically male rape counsellor, or if a male who is a rapist is transferred to a women's prison?

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