To be fucking furious this is happening to women's sports

[Bambambini]

For all those who think trans politics doesn't affect you or your daughters - please read this article of a male forcing women out of their sport and the authorities are letting this happen. If you don't give a shiney shit about this incident - what exactly will it take for you to sit up and take notice and start saying enough.

m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11821399

Isadora, you asked how many transwomen there can possibly be in sports.

Probably many more than you'd guess. Ten years back, there were vanishingly small numbers of 'transgender' teenagers. Now, every secondary I know has at least one. Some have several. DD's perfectly ordinary 1000-pupil comp has three that I know of: one in her year, two in her brother's. St Paul's Girls School apparently has 10 (though, as FtM transitioners, they aren't any challenge to the biological males).

But ultimately, I don't think it matters how many there are in the general population, because a male in the top 10% is going to beat the women by dint of musculature and stature, and sod the effects of hormones. So we could expect to see a mediocre transwoman rising to the top of every women's sport barring gymnastics and possibly equestrian events. (Well, personally I wouldn't fancy cycling or horse-riding at all after GR surgery, but I know that few people actually go through all the ins and outs of it, so to speak.)

But if men can just become a woman because they have stated that they are a woman (for whatever reason - they feel that they were always a woman, were wrongly assigned at birth or whatever), which is the change in the law that Maria Miller is requesting in parliament just now. Then men can just choose to be a woman, and take part in women's sports, enter women only refuges etc.
Imagine you are a man who has competed for 10 years in a sport but not got to the top, time is running out for you. Surely the temptation to be a world champion in the sport but a woman, is v attractive. And as I stated you don't need to do anything more than take female hormones.
I think if you aren't in sport (I'm not but I do know young relatives who are) you do not realise the dedication and commitment it needs, it takes over your life, in my view. So imv there is a serious risk that men might become women to finally get that gold medal or to finally win at world level.
On top of that is the quirky interest. - these mtFTrans competing attract more interest, increases viewing numbers, gets higher advertising income. They will take over from women, if it's financially profitable it will happen.
Trans mtfemales have much higher rates of testosterone than women, lower than men but much higher than women, For some reason, completely beyond my comprehension, the Olympics Committee think that's fine.

granny

What, a thread about transwomen being an opportunity to talk about ......transwomen? Who'da thunk it?

Granny, are you a grown up? Is your name a not very clever deception?

Not being transphobic , but I just don't understand the Trans Gender thing !
Those men who want to be women, don't they want to be "feminine" ?
Why change gender to become a butch woman ?

Confused and naiive ?

I agree there are probably a fair few already competing and numbers are important in terms of the erasure of women in sport, but the fact remains that even one or two trans women beating women in sporting events is outrageously unfair. Either we segregate according to sex or we don't. There should not be a situation where a man can cheat his way to the top of a sporting event against women and THE RULES SAY THIS IS OK. It is never ok.

It was the same with allowing women to fight on the front line They allowed it but before a born woman could complete the training, A male soldier declared himself female and is now the first woman to fight on the front line.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37391807

napmeister

Re: your point about transmen

Turns out women were as well-suited, if not better suited, to becoming astronauts according to the first screening tests done in the 1950s. But NASA buried that.

ASTRONAUTS

I'm not the least sporty and i can see how this is unfair on female athletes. its possible there are sports where sex doesn't matter but weightlifting isn't one of them. There was also a case of a transgirl in a wrestling team, link below.

So basically female athletes now have to accept male bodied people, who have bigger lungs and hearts, longer reach, more testosterone than your average woman and ALSO girls and women on testosterone, which would have been cheating not long ago. It must be soul destroying to spend a life training to an elite standard and then have your chance at a trophy whipped away because of institutional dithering about the difference between sex and gender.
www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/26/transgender-teenager-taking-testosterone-wins-texas-state-girls-wrestling-tournament/

Everyone competing at the olympics is basically a genetic freak from both a physical and mental perspective. I can't find too much enthusiasm to care which variety of freak is currently on which podium.

If this begins to impact on everyday sports that affect the physical and mental wellbeing of millions of girls then it IS a big issue.

However, there are many girls out there playing on boys teams already, they find their level within multi league age bounded groupings. So I don't really see that the existence of transgender children on sports teams is going to be a big deal.

There is an argument for visible role models, but tbh the visibility of elite women sportspeople is practically non-existent anyway, so I doubt a few TW are going to make that much difference.

I think the trans agenda will blow open all the hypocrisy in sport, make it clear to everyone there are no level playing fields and only those blessed with truly unique physiology will ever have a shot.

You may not think so granny but you are wrong in your thinking ( sports not weightlifting in particular) and many studies prove this without doubt

It's the die-hard liberals who started this identity politics nonsense. Reap what you sow

If you don't give a shiney shit about this incident - what exactly will it take for you to sit up and take notice and start saying enough.

I don't have daughters so it's a non issue for me personally. I don't have an opinion. But the constant demands that we are outraged are making some people jaded about it.

Morphene, very true about children's sport. My GC have played or are still playing on mixed sex teams for football, netball and cross country. I think their swimming team was mixed as well but I can't swear to that.

For all those who think trans politics doesn't affect you or your daughters

Should have quoted that in my post above as well

I wouldn't care if it was a man, a woman, a man who feels like a woman or a woman who feels like a man. If they are better at it than me then they deserve to win.

Seems pointless splitting the competitions into mens'/womens' then doesn't it? Just let everyone compete against everyone else. And we might as well forget different weights for boxers/wrestlers etc - after all if the biggest one smashes seven bells out of the littlest, then that's fair because they obviously deserve to win, don't they?

You are very stupid, granny if you can't see that this is someone who wasn't good enough to compete successfully against members of his own sex, but is happy to compete against members of the other, less muscular, sex.

Come hell or high water men are struggling to maintain supremacy. As soon as the playing field is levelled, they find a way to tip it again.

Just remembered they play on a mixed cricket team as well.

Ah I see people are resorting to insults towards anyone who isn't jumping up and down about this. Nice.

There is an argument for visible role models, but tbh the visibility of elite women sportspeople is practically non-existent anyway, so I doubt a few TW are going to make that much difference

I entirely disagree with this, but the fact remains that it is cheating for men to compete as women. Cheating should not be sanctioned in our society.

HappyFlappy but don't all those categories make it all a mockery anyway? I am the best whatever as long as you don't let anyone bigger/faster/stronger compete against me. Well you might think I'm stupid but if you ban everyone cleverer than me then I could win Mastermind. Wouldn't that be pointless?

I can't believe that mixed children's teams are being used as an example that mixed sex adult teams would be ok.

Post 16 girls would risk injury in a lot of sports surely.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool

It was a trans boy on the wrestling team so ftm taking testosterone.
which (for me) muddies the water even more.

When it comes to sport, transwomen have an obvious advantage in women's sport, but hardly any transmen are going to be able to compete at the highest level in men's sport, so there is an inbuilt disadvantage there to all those born female.

Just look at this picture to see how difficult it is going to be for anyone born female to get onto sports teams in competition with transwomen.

Surely this stuff about transwomen needing to have testosterone levels below some arbitrary number (which is nevertheless WAY higher than a woman's) is ignoring one key point, which is that these people still have the advantage of being male bodied and having male musculature? Having low(ish) testosterone levels doesn't negate that advantage, surely?

I think Granny has very cleverly derailed a thread that would have gone entirely in one direction had she not intervened with her specious nonsense.