To be fucking furious this is happening to women's sports

[Bambambini]

For all those who think trans politics doesn't affect you or your daughters - please read this article of a male forcing women out of their sport and the authorities are letting this happen. If you don't give a shiney shit about this incident - what exactly will it take for you to sit up and take notice and start saying enough.

m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11821399

LiviaDrusillaAugust it always enhances an argument when you have to resort to swearing and insults. The abuse on here has been worse than usual I think.

I agree - calling people stupid for having a different opinion is an interesting tactic

Nice that you weren't bothered about sharing a mixed sex ward granny. But some women would mind very much.

Last week 2 women were kicked out of an abused women's shelter for objecting to sharing a room with a male who identified as female, in a country that already has gender identity laws like those that are currently going through our parliament. How any women can claim not to care about this stuff is beyond me.

do people honestly think someone would go through the heartache and difficulty of changing gender and living as a woman simply to get one over on women in their chosen sport?

Isadora - when you look at the way some athletes are prepares to abuse and ultimately destroy their bodies with various drugs/steroids etc - then yes. I do think that there will be some who will be prepared to change gender if that's what it takes to "win".

This isn't about "trans hatred" at all - it is about fairness and equality.

Individuals can identify as any gender they wish - and some are "gender fluid", which I think means that they feel one gender in some areas, and the other gender in other areas (if I'm wrong, please put me right, people). But GENDER is a social construct. SEX i.e. being born male or female, identified (if necessary) by chromosomes, is what should count when it comes to things like competitive sports.

HumphreyCobblers, do you really want threads to always go entirely in one direction? How boring and utterly pointless on a forum that is about discussing things.

Im really confused. Like really

So feminists come out with the old 'women can do at least anything a man can do and more. There is no difference between men and women.' So an MTF trans competes in women's sport and it's a different story?

Make your minds up, you either want equality or you don't

What Morphene said.

The Women's 800m podium in Rio last year.

stitchglitched, I was admitted as an emergency and was critically ill. The sex, or gender, of other people on the ward was the least of my worries.

I like a thread to be about the topic in the OP, unless someone actually posts something sensible that enlarges the debate.

Irrelevancies dominating is not so appealing.

Eh? Feminists don't deny material reality, that's completely untrue. I would like female sports to have a higher profile and more funding but not to be taken over by men, transgender or otherwise. It is completely unfair and harmful.

Feminists never argue that men and women are the same, missswatch, because that's patently untrue.

No, feminists recognise very clearly the difference in biology between men and women, since biology is the big cause of women's oppression.

when you look at the way some athletes are prepares to abuse and ultimately destroy their bodies with various drugs/steroids etc - then yes. I do think that there will be some who will be prepared to change gender if that's what it takes to "win" A great advert for competitive sport.

If you want to be sickened watch Fallon Fox a transgender MtF MMA (multimartial arts)fighter on Youtube. Her build, style of boxing everything is so different than the female fighters, they don't stand a chance.

It's all about you isn't it granny? You weren't bothered so no one else should be.

The Women's 800m podium in Rio last year.

How long before women athletes down tools and refuse to participate in this nonsense?

As long as it's ok for you granny then it must be ok for every woman?

I've never been in hospital so I don't care about mixed wards or the state of the NHS of course I do, it affects people I care about and may be my problem in the future

I do however have some empathy and can see how people may be affected by things that dont affect me specifically... can you not see that?

I've asked my MP not to support the Gender Protection Bill
Trans people need protection from discrimination but women need protection from this encroachment into their hard fought for equality with men and their women only spaces.

FFS, why doesn't this forum have an ignore button?

If you want to be sickened watch Fallon Fox a transgender MtF MMA (multimartial arts)fighter on Youtube. Her build, style of boxing everything is so different than the female fighters, they don't stand a chance.

Ain't no-one willing to fight FF anymore.

the constant demands that we are outraged are making some people jaded about it.

I expect people said just that about the Nazi regime and Stalin's death camps in the 1930s. People kept going on about them, almost as if something outrageous was actually going on!

I'm outraged that very young, vulnerable, troubled people of both sexes are being pushed towards this huge step of changing their whole identity, possibly including taking hormone treatments and surgery in their teens, when in a great many cases what they actually need is family support, a sympathetic counsellor and some role models that show it's actually absolutely fine to be a girl who wants to have short hair and wear flat shoes, or to be a boy who likes dressing up, whether or not you end up being gay (and a lot of children now classed as trans would just a few short years ago have gone down that road).

I will not become jaded about healthy 16yo girls having double mastectomies because they are unhappy with their female bodies. This may not be happening on a large scale over here but it is not uncommon in the USA.

Sport is just one area where this is having a very real impact on women's lives. Men's, not so much. Why isn't everybody outraged about that? Why is it women, time and again, who have to adjust and accept? Why aren't men saying 'Hang on a minute, why don't we have another look at these restrictive gender stereotypes? While we're about it, what about having a really good go at reprogramming ourselves not to be so violent?'

stitchglitched, I don't think I said no one else should be bothered. I was critically ill, what do you think I should have done in the interests of female solidarity? Refused treatment. I could have been a martyr for the cause. No thanks, I was very ill, was admitted to a ward, had surgery and came home well. I'm not going to start kicking off about it.

If you're ever that ill you can make a decision about it yourself.

The main concern for me in the trans debate is the loss of women only spaces. I read a lonk to a blog on Twitter yesterday that nit hard.In (I think) Seattle where self identify law is already in place a woman found a naked man in the womens changing room at her gym. She felt uncomfortable so moved around to the toilet area ...where all half dozen toilets stalls were occupied by women getting changed, all of whom did not wish to change in front of this man. She stated these same women would normally have been in the open changing area which the man had all to himself. She , once changed, observed him finally dressed in mans attire. No even a pretence of being a trans woman ! Clearly this was a guy taking advantage of laws which mean a woman cannot challenge a man for being in a womens space for fear of being called a bigot.
This is a story that will become commonplace if Maria Miller gets her way. I for one, do not wish, nor wish my daughter, to be exposed to a naked man in what should be a woman only spce. Men WILL take advantage of these self identify laws, as they already are. It is insane.