To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

[RocketQueenP]

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

I'm not sure its massive, I think they are a lot more vocal than they were 6 years ago.
It seems to me a lot of stuff is going on behind the scenes. Its being managed. Mt belief is that current events are not random or spontaneous.

I also think they have a bunch of 'me too' people. Like with the Brexit 'protest' voters who are now surprised at what they voted for. I'm sick of hearing 'Oh but I didnt vote for that'. Yes, yes you did.

It SEEMS massive to me. As the Uk and now the USA have these hard right leaders in charge. And I have seen intelligent women all over my Facebook saying they support Trump and also openly admit they voted out of the EU.

Maybe it's the circles I move in 😂

And that's interesting when you say it's being managed...how do you mean?

Do you not think everything that happens is so amazingly contrived? Putin is bombing Christian civilians in Syria when he is supposed to be fighting ISIS. He's been doing it for years.

The right seems to be anyone who is not left leaning at the moment.

Politics goes in cycles. When I was young it was Labour, (Wilson, Callaghan), then we had Mrs T, and the Tories from 79 to 97, then Labour from 97 to 2010,Coalition and now the Tories again. There has been a distinct lean to the Left from 97 to 2015, even the Coalition was more left than centre right, so this is a readjustment. As a non leftie, this suits me, but 97-15 left me cold and tearing my hair out.

I have said this on another thread. I think they have always been there but silent. In recent years if anyone right wing expressed their views they were instantly branded a racist or homophobic. So they just stopped saying these things and didn't contribute to conversation or debate.

It's only in the privacy of the voting booth that they can say how they feel.

If we stop being so judgmental we would be more aware of the situation.

I think it's a combination of factors. Global trade has meant that middle to lower income people have seen their living standards rise over the past couple of decades (think cheap TVs etc). Now, however, the undeveloped economies that were able to make cheap goods on the back of cheap labour are developing and this, along with advances in technology, means there is a squeeze on lower and even middle skilled jobs. People are now competing internationally for jobs (whether they realise or not) and living standards have not continued to rise and have fallen back in some cases. People do not understand why this is and are resentful and fearful for the future. They are therefore easy prey for the likes of Trump and Farage who promise "change", "back to the old days", "all will be well"....without any coherent means of achieving this.

The FPTP system in this country meant that the Conservatives got a small majority as the SNP took a lot of traditional Labour seats (England is traditionally and generally more Conservative than Scotland). UKIP also took voters in traditional Labour strongholds (think poorer areas in the North). So I wouldn't say a positive swing to the Tories! As I have said to many a Labour Brexiteer, if Scotland (strongly remain) votes to secede from the UK in a second independence vote, then you have basically ensured Conservative governments in the rest of the UK on a permanent basis. As DJBaggy said so well - that wasn't what they voted for? Yes, yes it is....

Rocket I don't consider the PM to be hard right in any way at all; she's centre right if anything. I voted for Brexit, as I think the EU (Juncker, Tusk, Verhofstadt, Mogherini et all) is sclerotic, resistant to change, wasteful and encased in the Brussels bubble.

I'm tired of hearing that the movement created the backlash.
Feminism is not responsible for the MRA's.
Equality in the workplace is not oppressing white people or men.

Those people need to own their own behaviour.

I think the EU (Juncker, Tusk, Verhofstadt, Mogherini et all) is sclerotic, resistant to change, wasteful and encased in the Brussels bubble.

I wouldn't quite put it like that, but I don't disagree with you, scaryteacher. Sadly, the size of our current account deficit (amongst other things) means we are royally screwed without access to the single market...so I think Brexit is utter madness.

And all this pandering to Trump? It's godawful. But we have chosen to out ourselves in a position where we need a trade deal. I do wonder how many of the protestors the other night were brexiteers. To quote DJBaggy again - you didn't vote for that? Yes you did....

"I'm tired of hearing that the movement created the backlash.
Feminism is not responsible for the MRA's.
Equality in the workplace is not oppressing white people or men.

Those people need to own their own behaviour."

Agree with this!

scaryteacher I think has hit the nail on the head about these things go in cycles. Successive left leaning governments have over promised, under delivered & ignored their core voters. We lead the way in 2010, with a centre right Administrstion but, I really fear for some of Europe, with what could happen in the elections this year, with some nasty far right parties out there

They've always been there, but before they've always known they should be quiet. A few Farages and trumps about makes them confident about expressing their views.

"^I'm tired of hearing that the movement created the backlash.
Feminism is not responsible for the MRA's.
Equality in the workplace is not oppressing white people or men.

Those people need to own their own behaviour.^"

This.

My first attempt at italics failed

When I read your title, I thought you meant on MN! There's been yet another goady right wing thread deleted on here today, there's lots of new posters popping up with 'Alt Right' views.

scaryteacher but this isn't based on experience its based on what youve been told about brussels etc so its not real information.

The rise is because, as in the 70s banks and companies have taken all the spare money and are screwing everybody to make up for it, and there isnt a redisdributive government so the poor are getting angrier and angrier and looking for scapegoats right wing nastiness happens with big poverty, when only bankers are creaming it in as in the 80s ..and the 1930s This time all the poor scrats who have nasty tendencies are all sharing 'muslims did x' or 'foreigners steal benefit money' and 'why cant i be proud for being a white fuckhead' crap on facebook..so they think the whole eorld us like them so they get further embolded. it wont take much more disadvantage before there are more riots and tge right will claim thst bullying and victimising the poor and criminal, and making sure tgey never work again will somehow 'cure' crime and people are desperate enough to believe it. People under stress become thick as fuck. The right thrives on the mobilisation of the thick as fuck.

@scary

When you voted fro Brexit, did you vote for Brexit with ongoing membership of the single market? Did you vote fro Brexit with the UK remaining part of the Customs Union? What was your stance on Freedom of Movement and how did you anticipate that would mesh with your other preferences? Did you vote for a hard Brexit and new trade deals with other nations? How long do you expect those to take to develop?

Surprised to see you put Tusk and Juncker in the same box. Surely they are cery different?

I think for years people have lived in their own bubble. The government did things that helped them or let them continue to do what they always had done and life continued along. However for years there has been a growing section of society for whom successive governments have ignored or been very naive about how different policies are going to affect them.
It didn't matter which government was in power things just got worse.

This section and others who could see what was happening suddenly had the opportunity to vote for a change from the status quo and they took it.

I think what's 'left' has changed too and fragmented..

All this 'latte drinking Islington' stuff isn't what I consider left wing.. My left is more concerned with working people and general equality but a lot of the other left wingers I speak to seem quite disdainful - this is where the 'they're all racist scum' stuff comes in..

They are indeed interesting times..

watching with interest

The right wing media has made racists and people with far right views feel its fine and acceotable to voice those views.

I think there is a difference in left wing views that support working people and left wing views that support non working people. Many of the former have gone to UKIP.

Incidentally, I'm intrigued to see if Le Pen will succeed in France. I think it's April when they have their elections.