To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

[RocketQueenP]

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

I think part of what has happened is that "left" has become a badge of identity and has been detached from belief in actual socialist policies, as the spectrum moved rightwards under Blair. I noticed people I know who write for the Guardian sounding off very publicly about how there was a long left-leaning tradition in their family, while supporting people like Liz Kendall, who by even fairly recent historical standards is centre-right.

Mmm see though disappointed I agree with his stance MP's voted in support of a referendum (which I believe never should have happened) and to stand by the decision of that vote

A challenge to the Leave campaign I would have supported but that ship has long sailed

Why was it only the SNP that were against the referendum does anyone know ?

No, the Guardian is resolutely centrist now, just look at the coverage of Corbyn. Of course, any paper is always a mishmash of different views and they do have a couple of journos that are slightly more left, but their politics are still largely liberal/social democrat rather than fully redistributive. It has been, for some time, the voice of a north London media bubble that is very out of touch.

Ellie May OHagan?
Owen Jones?
Giles Fraser?

All fans of Corbyn, although Jonesy is having doubts.
I wouldn't say that it's centrist to be critical of Corbyn. I think he's a muppet, and I'm on the left.
Corbyn seems to be more than happy dealing with the Morning Star anyway.

Let's be clear: it wins votes BECAUSE of the media support enthusiasm. Not the other way round. Why do you think Cameron was demanding the removal of Paul Dacre at the Mail over Brexit?

Liz Kendall isn't centre right.

"I wouldn't say that it's centrist to be critical of Corbyn."

No, of course. I'm critical of Corbyn because I'm further left. It depends on what you're supporting instead, doesn't it? In the case of very many Guardian columnists (and how is Simon Jenkins still employed there, btw) it's a pretty unimaginative, wealthy north London centrism.

Clinton 65,844,954 (48.2%)
Trump 62,979,879 (46.1%)

difference 2.9 million

Owllady I think he refused it a while back, as he had a young family and had just remarried, following the death of his first wife.

I think he would be very credible as he has been on active service and is used to dealing with all spectrums of society. He seems a decent man and is not a career politician (with the exception of dealing with the army upper echelons).

I'd say that the Guardian, and especially the Mirror, are crutucal of Corbyn because they're populated by people who'd quite like a Labour government, rather than a metropolitan protest movement.

It's not as simple as saying it wins votes becuase of the media

The media plays a huge part in politics but so do people's experiences and when they are not addressed there is a backlash and it can open the door for someone like Trump

And the Guardian has writers that support or certainly supported Corbyn thankfully most have some to their senses

I think the question is: what kind of Labour government they want, and then we're back to the spectrum of ideas. Let's not pretend, for God's sake, that there's no difference in terms of policy between Old Labour, New Labour and Momentum.

The boundaries of what is "electable" aren't set in stone, they vary with time, culture and media.

I think a lot of people these days want the badge of "left" without any of the beliefs!! I don't quite understand why.

enthusiasm - I absolutely agree with you about addressing experiences. But I think experience is always already framed. We don't have experience and THEN understand it, at some later date. The things we are taught, the assumptions that we bring to any situation frame up how we understand it. (This is, essentially, what ideology is at a deep level).

This means that the power of those who control means of media influence is huge! And it very much permeates the graduate middle class - even while those people think they're not under its influence, they're being kept within pretty narrow bounds in terms of their thought: the assumptions (on left and right) are those of liberal capitalist democracy.

(Or "neoliberalism" if you want to call it that)

Labour started losing voters when Michael Foot was leader when the unions had a strangle hold on he country and the Labour Party and along came Thatcher a right wing Tory who believed that the working class deserved better (well pretended to)

History certainly does repeat itself

Actually there's considerable evidence that people vote more "right-wing" or conservative when they're anxious.

Here's an article on one scientific study (with link to full original study):
New Study Shows How Fear And Anxiety Change Our Political Attitudes

A new study in the peer-reviewed journal Political Psychology explores how emotions such as anxiety, even if their cause has nothing to do with politics, can result in a hardening of our views...

To test the theory 138 men from Cambridge, Massachusetts were asked to watch a series of videos before answering surveys. First the group watched relaxing images of beaches and palm trees, before being divided into groups. Two groups watched soothing music or a screensaver of abstract shapes.. The third group was subjected to Sylvester Stallone’s "Cliffhanger."

The results showed that the heightened physiological reactivity caused by watching two minutes of rope dangling peril, led to stronger anti-immigration attitudes...

These findings, as well as previous research on the motivating effects of fear for conservative voters, may explain why political messages aimed at Republican voting blocs tend to use anxiety- and fear-provoking strategies to encourage voting behavior.

Hard to imagine anyone thinking unions have a strangle hold now, though, isn't it? One of the major changes of the last couple of decades is the decline in collective labour power. History does NOT repeat itself with any exactitude.

Enthusiasm I can't believe that those in power didn't see Brexit or Trump as POTUS coming. The discontent has been simmering for a while now, and nothing was done to address it. They all assumed the ostrich position.

I keep debating this with ds (21), who tells me to check my privilege. Yes, we are comfortable, but that doesn't mean that your critical faculties are suspended. There is a massive disconnect between the governed and the governing. On paper, I should have supported DC. I thought he was a posh boy who was playing at being PM and fancied himself as a greater spinmeister than Alastair Campbell. I think he grossly underestimated the electorate. Had he told us the extent of the deficit and the debt, and laid out how to deal with it, then the UK might have been on side. I have far more time for Mrs May. A friend who has worked for her says she is Mrs T, but without the charm.

It started with the Conservatives under John Major, who pushed to sign the Maastricht Treaty.
At that time, Labour opposed signing because it would end in mass immigration, and they were labelled as racists. By the Right.
And thats been the standard response since then.

I think the left wing media is there, and that's not the problem. A severe problem is that the left has fundamentally split. If I paint a picture that is clearly a broad-brush, the young, socially liberal, educated, urban don't have much in common any more with the "old left", the unionists, the working class. The new right (UKIP, Trump) have been very successful at drawing a wedge between the left.

I think a lot of people these days want the badge of "left" without any of the beliefs!! I don't quite understand why.

You don't get to define what 'left' means. That's authoritarian. The Blair government helped people in this country, before he went all messianic. You don't get to define Liz Kendall as centre right just because you don't agree with her.

I feel so sad when I watch Trump supporters in the US as Trump isn't going to help them - where are they going to go it becomes apparent to them?

That's where scapegoats come in. If you can't deliver the positive things you promised, misdirect your disappointed followers to take it out on some Othered group.

Doesn't really matter who it is, but religion, race or language have been popular forms of Othering over the centuries.

Labour started losing voters when Michael Foot was leader when the unions had a strangle hold on he country and the Labour Party and along came Thatcher a right wing Tory who believed that the working class deserved better (well pretended to)

Thatcher predates Foot.

I think they are priming up Dan Jarvis

Dan Jarvis is my MP. I'm not a fan of the Labour Party, they've had a stranglehold on this town for far too long but I really like Jarvis and what he's done for us so far.

I've met him too. He came knocking on doors for something I can't remember now (not himself, he'd already been elected) and I was quite impressed with him. I couldn't pick the previous MP out of a line up (which is ironic as he went to jail for fiddling his expenses).

I think that's very accurate, KellysZeros
Brexit has really illustrated those fault lines.

Well im very hard up and im more left wing than ever.
There is no way im going to blame imigrants or Muslims for me being skint. I blame Tory cuts and a zero hour culture in the workplace.