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Original poster

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

296 replies

RocketQueenP · 01/02/2017 11:25

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

OP posts:
Owllady · 01/02/2017 14:15

People are being manipulated into voting for the opposite of what will help them
I am really shocked at the amount of people who think they'll be able to afford private healthcare for example but then do they realise that the people they are voting for only want free healthcare at the point of access? Do they know that alot of capital ideology means self funding?. Maybe they've never had to visit a vet (vet care is expensive btw, so presumably humans are more expensive:o)

20nil · 01/02/2017 14:16

Agreed; so depressing and genuinely difficult to know what to suggest anymore.

I believe in political cycles, but I am sick of it. Tories cut taxes for the richest and slash social spending. Labour comes in when things are especially grim and put money into eduction, health etc... Tories accuse them of mismanaging the economy, get elected, cut taxes, schools and hospitals begin to fall apart while class sizes grow, Labour come in to clear up their mess ... and the whole vicious cycle begins again.

All parties have made mistakes, but the idea that this bunch of clowns is managing the economy well is beyond me. More than a million people using food banks, most of them working people, tent cities of the homeless springing up in our cities, NHS in crisis, school funding cut again.
Unemployment doesn't look too bad, but only if you ignore how many of those new jobs are part time, insecure or zero hours. How is this anything less than a national disgrace?

The sooner we either accept that if we want decent services, we'll have to pay more tax, the better. The cycle of on/off inventemnt in them has got to stop. Both parties should accept this and be honest with voters about it.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:16

and hug a hoodie type thing

That was Cameron.

Aeroflotgirl · 01/02/2017 14:17

I think also some of the far left have not done themselves any favours, with their reactions to brexit, and demanding another vote, just because they did not get the outcome they desired; rather like throwing their toys out the the pram. They made themselves look so bad. With the likes of Lilly Allen, and Bob Geldof on the bandwagon.

20nil · 01/02/2017 14:20

Aero I don't want another referendum but I do want the courtesy of being able to say I think Brexit is a catastrophe without being told I'm moaning.

LouKout · 01/02/2017 14:23

People want another vote because the Leave campaign told nothing but lies.

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 14:24

They made themselves look so bad. With the likes of Lilly Allen, and Bob Geldof on the bandwagon.

So what if Lilly Allen says something? What does this have to do with it?

Man10 · 01/02/2017 14:26

The left as stupid (''retarded'' or ''libtard'' if you are American) is a right wing trope at the moment.

I don't think there's any "at the moment" about it. Both left and right have to explain to themselves why the other disagree with them, I don't think the explanations have changed recently.

The right's explanation for the left is that they thick, in particular too stupid/ignorant to understand the harm done when you interfere with market forces. (I am right wing, and sigh at dealing with another thick lefty every time someone on here posts about what wages, house prices or rents "should" be.)

The left's explanation for the right is that they think differently because they are evil.

We see a lot more of left's explanation for the right than the converse, on here. This might be because MN is left-wing, but it might also be because the right explanation takes explaining to an unreceptive (and possibly thick) listener, whereas the left explanation is tautologically true: if you hold the wrong views, you're evil for holding them, and the reason you hold them is because you're evil. With a tight circular argument like that there's no further explanation needed.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:27

This is why I'm very happy to debate with scaryteacher. Because I'm so glad to have an intelligent counter-argument to bounce off.
Too much of this current right wing argument is 'I reckon, right..' type stuff, or 'bloke in the pub' level. It's so poorly informed and it's fucking lazy. It's often accompanied by the paranoid bollocks of 'you're not allowed to say these things any more'.
I'm not excusing the Left either; the term Neoliberal once had a meaning, now it just seems to mean 'bad stuff I don't agree with'.
We're lucky enough to live in a liberal democracy. With that comes the responsibility to read things, educate yourself, develop opinions that you can defend with evidence. I'm not arrogant enough to think my opinions are immovable, they change over time; I examine and challenge them. If I can do that, and I come from a council estate where there were no books in the house, then people have no excuse.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 01/02/2017 14:27

also some of the far left have not done themselves any favours, with their reactions to brexit, and demanding another vote, just because they did not get the outcome they desired; rather like throwing their toys out the the pram.

There are people against Brexit from all parts of the political spectrum. Why on earth do you think it was 'the far left'?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 14:27

I think there is another issue and that is people desperately want change

I am not sure everyone who voted Trump felt he was the right person to be Preaident or who voted Brexit are passionately anti EU but they did feel desperate and that nothing was changing for them they had been left behind and when the chance for a real change came along not the same empty promises they took it

when they have shown on the news reports the run down areas of the US (have seen it myself) where there simply is nothing for the people I can't say I am surprised they wanted to believe there was an alternative and turned a blind eye to who was offering it

GeordieShorefg · 01/02/2017 14:27

LouKout

Whatever your views, the vote is done

WrongTrouser · 01/02/2017 14:27

The right thrives on the mobilisation of the thick as fuck

I think comments like this are fueling the far-right immensely.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:28

I think also some of the far left have not done themselves any favours, with their reactions to brexit, and demanding another vote, just because they did not get the outcome they desired; rather like throwing their toys out the the pram. They made themselves look so bad. With the likes of Lilly Allen, and Bob Geldof on the bandwagon.

You'll find that most of the 'far left' quite like the idea of Brexit. Opposition to it comes from across the political spectrum. Bob Geldof is a Lib Dem, IIRC.

LouKout · 01/02/2017 14:29

Yes. The advisory vote is done.

LouKout · 01/02/2017 14:31

WrongTrouser you are right, who is going to enjoy being called thick as fuck and come round to opposing views that way.

GeordieShorefg · 01/02/2017 14:35

If a person really believes something, they do not need to persuade another to think the same - as they have the courage of their convictions and hold their head up as they know themselves. They don't need to throw about insults etc

People throwing around insults on here are merely fuelling the other side, as hurling insults says more about YOU.

I lean more right than otherwise however I would never accuse anyone of being less than intelligent merely because they believe different, if they are prepared to treat others with respect and dignity.

If someone wants to throw insults around, then they are an insecure fool, despite whatever side of the political debate they fall on

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 14:37

The right's explanation for the left is that they thick, in particular too stupid/ignorant to understand the harm done when you interfere with market forces. (I am right wing, and sigh at dealing with another thick lefty every time someone on here posts about what wages, house prices or rents "should" be.)

The free market is a fairy tale.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 14:38

Thick as fuck

Deblorables

Yes it's that attitude that has won votes Hmm

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 01/02/2017 14:38

The advisory vote is done no one was under any illusion that the result of the referendum would stand. Their vote would be acted on. Out would be out. It couldn't have been clearer.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 14:38

People aren't thick, they are being manipulated to vote for something they don't agree with.
Look at the nhs bus that apparently was a figment of everyone's imagination.

It's a bit like an abusive relationship. I have just watched PMQ. It's the best example of gas lighting I've ever seen.

MephistophelesApprentice · 01/02/2017 14:39

Owllady

Why don't you fall for the same manipulations? What has protected you?

Owllady · 01/02/2017 14:41

I have an invisibility cloak

LouKout · 01/02/2017 14:43

Personally I don't think there should be a rerun of the same vote.

I think ideally once terms are decided there should be another vote with clear and transparent information on both sides but that ain't gonna happen.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:43

I think ideally once terms are decided there should be another vote with clear and transparent information on both sides but that ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, me too.