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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

296 replies

RocketQueenP · 01/02/2017 11:25

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

OP posts:
Musicinthe00ssucks · 01/02/2017 12:35

As the Uk and now the USA have these hard right leaders in charge

And who is the UK's hard right leader? We aren't being governed by UKIP or the BNP you do realise.

Boulshired · 01/02/2017 12:41

Social media has not helped, the need to put down other opinions have killed debate to the point where people just talk amongst themselves and vilify those who who dare to offer an alternative view or those even attempting to play devils advocate. Many sides are guilty of this. May or Corbyn, I honestly feel I would need to vote May does that make me right wing?

LouKout · 01/02/2017 12:41

Does voting for May make you right wing?

Err yes.

Musicinthe00ssucks · 01/02/2017 12:43

No dispute about the Tory's being right wing but "hard right"? Come off it!

LouKout · 01/02/2017 12:44

Of coruse they are hard right Confused

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 12:45

Corbynism isn't very attractive to people. I've spoken to people on the doorstep that can see straight through him; his 1960s Cuba Solidarity nonsense, his refusal to support NATO allies, his interference in the peace process and his past IRA sympathies. Even when he starts advocating policies, he fucks it up, or condradicts existing Labour Party policy. Support for Labour is hovering around the 25% mark; those votes are going somewhere; I've been associated with the Labour Party for 30 years, but I don't feel that anyone represents me at the moment. I've got more in common with Anna Soubry than Diane Abbott presently. I've had to forgive the Lib Dems the Health and Social Care Act, and they've got my tentative support at the moment.
If people feel left behind, and not represented, they are easily led into scapegoating. The media like to encourage this, whether it's the DM or Sun with immigrants, or the unending C4 and C5 benefit bashing stuff. The constant attacks on 'Liberal Elites' (i.e. Anyone who doesn't agree with Dacre or Murdoch) exacerbate the situation. Perhaps when Brexit has happened, and people notice that things haven't improved, or worsened, then we might see some drift back towards the centre.
I'm desperately hoping that this populist right wing upsurge is temporary, and will burn itself out. I just hope that it doesn't do some severe damage in the meantime.

blueirishues · 01/02/2017 12:47

Hard, or rather far, right is the BNP in political terms

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 12:48

scaryteacher but this isn't based on experience its based on what youve been told about brussels etc so its not real information.

The rise is because, as in the 70s banks and companies have taken all the spare money and are screwing everybody to make up for it, and there isnt a redisdributive government so the poor are getting angrier and angrier and looking for scapegoats right wing nastiness happens with big poverty, when only bankers are creaming it in as in the 80s ..and the 1930s This time all the poor scrats who have nasty tendencies are all sharing 'muslims did x' or 'foreigners steal benefit money' and 'why cant i be proud for being a white fuckhead' crap on facebook..so they think the whole eorld us like them so they get further embolded. it wont take much more disadvantage before there are more riots and tge right will claim thst bullying and victimising the poor and criminal, and making sure tgey never work again will somehow 'cure' crime and people are desperate enough to believe it. People under stress become thick as fuck. The right thrives on the mobilisation of the thick as fuck.

All that need be said.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 12:49

Theresa May isn't hard right, but she's certainly riding the populist tiger. By insisting on a Brexit she doesn't personally believe a word of, she's felt forced into the whole Trump/Erdogan debacle.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 12:50

The BNP are pretty much defunct. The hard right in this country is UKIP.

blueirishues · 01/02/2017 12:54

In the sense of votes but not necessarily policies.

derxa · 01/02/2017 12:57

There are deeper political divisions in this country now than I can ever remember since Margaret Thatcher. Social media have a lot to do with this.
No reasoned argument just yaboo you're wrong.

deblet · 01/02/2017 13:07

I used to vote Labour but will never vote for Corbyn so looking for an alternative. I agree with Trump that you should put your own country and its values first even if I don't agree with some of his actions like the pipeline for example. I am sick of living in a country that tells me I must be tolerant of a religion I find so barbaric and cruel. However I have never understood what makes you left or right I just vote for the person I most believe in at the time and tbh when I did the questionnaire thing last year to see who you should vote for based on policies I came out at 25 per cent for all four so it didn't help. I agree with a pp lots of people feel like me but have felt unable to voice their opinions but some feel free to say so now the mood is changing.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:12

I am sick of living in a country that tells me I must be tolerant of a religion I find so barbaric and cruel.

So what do you advocate doing?

IvorHughJarrs · 01/02/2017 13:13

Absolutely agree derxa. I would regard myself as fairly central and when doing those quiz things that tell you where your politics lie am always near the middle yet find the inability of both sides to discuss anything shocking.
Even on this thread we see, presumably , left wing liberals claiming that those with different opinions have no valid experience or opinions but are misinformed and thick as fuck. Those attitudes as much part of the problem as the blaming and othering of the right

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 13:13

Scaryclown Don't be patronising. I have lived within the Brussels bubble for a decade, so I know it exists. Dh was seconded to the EU, and when the EEAS was formed, Cathy Ashton became the boss. He was seconded there for three years. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how that isn't ' experience' ? As for information, there is lots of it out there from European publications, unless they are lying as well? I also talk to people who work at the EU, so again, current info.

The EU is sclerotic, decisions take a long time precisely because they have to be run past all the Member States....look at CETA, and how long that took, almost scuppered by Wallonia at the last minute. Wasteful....how much does the monthly Strasbourg junket cost? Is it necessary, or is it just to appease the French? Why do it and waste all that money when Member States are are drawing their horns in. Resistant to change....see Brexit, which could have been avoided, although I'm glad it wasn't.

I think the Left thrives on the thick as fuck actually as I don't think critical thinking is encouraged, and is met with howls of outrage if you query the Leadership; and it seems with Momentum we seem to be having a rerun of Militant Tendency.

As for the 80s, they were fab. An explosion of colour, music, and hope in direct contrast to the drab and union dominated 70s.

TiggyD Why should anyone right of centre have to be quiet? Just because one is to the right, doesn't mean they are far right. I always wished the far left would be quiet, but hey ho.

Secrets I want out, and am happy with a hard Brexit. If we are out, then we should not be in the single market, and we should be scoping out trade deals with other nations, ready for them to be signed the minute we can do so. We should maintain a friendly working relationship with the EU member States, as we will be working with them in their role as NATO nations. Equally, as they rely on the UK and U.S. within NATO and for Five Eyes intelligence, which they will want to continue to access, then they need a friendly relationship as well.

My stance of freedom of movement is that it should be for work, and like Belgium, you should have to prove how you will support yourself and your family without recourse to the state. I think there is a debate to be had about both EU and non EU immigration, and I think a system like that of Australia, NZ and Canada could be considered. It's a shame that this can't be had without claims of racism or xenophobia surfacing. I am well aware of the strain that incomers put on communities in terms of housing becoming expensive, other languages being spoken etc, after a decade of living in Belgium, and we need a mature approach to, and debate about, funding and resourcing the extra infrastructure needed to cope with the increase in population in the UK.

I put Tusk and Juncker in the same box because I don't think Tusk counter balances Juncker enough, and I don't think either of them really believe that Brexit will happen. Brussels bubble in action.

wettunwindee · 01/02/2017 13:13

Because the left fucked it up so abysmally.

In a few years the right will fuck it up and the left will get in.

and so on.

FWIW, the moderate right are right. The clue's in the name!

DJBaggySmalls · 01/02/2017 13:14

In her recent Brexit speech May used a saying from the BNP about the 'brightest and best' people of other nations.
Dont tell me that she's not pandering to the far right.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:14

I agree with a pp lots of people feel like me but have felt unable to voice their opinions but some feel free to say so now the mood is changing.

You've always been able to express your opinions; we're lucky enough to live in a liberal democracy, everyone is able to state their beliefs within the law. Freedom of speech also involves the rights of others to challenge, however.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:18

I think the Left thrives on the thick as fuck actually as I don't think critical thinking is encouraged, and is met with howls of outrage if you query the Leadership; and it seems with Momentum we seem to be having a rerun of Militant Tendency.

You're taking about elements of the Left, not the Left as a whole. There's plenty on this side that oppose Momentum, and we're not quiet about it.

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 13:18

FWIW Scaryclown I'm educated to postgraduate level, so am not as thick as fuck, I just hold different opinions to you.

specialsubject · 01/02/2017 13:19

Equally regarding what people voted for - did remain voters choose to keep the best bits of EU but lose the insanities ( energy policy , massive waste, travelling circus)

Of course not! Neither option offered choices or flavours. It is in no way a yes/no and it was crazy to present it as such. I can see why people didn't vote, although that's not a good choice either.

DJBaggySmalls · 01/02/2017 13:20

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user1471545174 · 01/02/2017 13:21

These responses indicate that right and left don't really describe the political situation adequately any more. The increased support for UKIP in the North is coming from ex Labour voters.

Oddly enough the only leader I'd vote for at the moment, if he had a party, is Clegg. The Remainers have no representation (and I'm not a big fan of the EU by any means, I just believe that Project Fear rather understated the case. I hope I am wrong).

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:21

I'm a great believer in the horseshoe theory of politics; those on the extremes of both left and right have more in common than they would acknowledge. Currently that includes an admiration of Putin, authoritarianism, different yet similar strains of racism (antagonism to Islam on the right, strains of anti-Semitism on the far left).

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