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To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

296 replies

RocketQueenP · 01/02/2017 11:25

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

OP posts:
LouKout · 01/02/2017 13:22

Hard right is not a synonym for far right.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 13:23

I think there are many issues

One big one being many people felt they were being left behind and after the financial crash things haven't moved on for them but have for others in particular those that played a part in the crash or profited from the financial services

Of course some people are racist but start whispering in peoples ears I hear you when you say have been left behind I agree it's wrong they (establishment/politicians/Westminster/Washington) don't listen to your concerns, you are concerned that services are cut right back but did you know those coming in can still access them and that we still send millions of £/$'s in aid yet nothing has been done here for you and your children

We shouldn't be surprised the writing was on the wall we should be ashamed that politicians across Europe and in the states allowed this to carry on and didn't want to get caught up in people fears so dismissed them instead of addressing them

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 13:24

DJ She's the daughter of a vicar. I expect like me she has sung 'Brightest and best are the sons of the morning' (written in 1811) in church many times.

Cockacidal Why then are all those who are right of centre lumped together as a whole by many then? I am glad to hear people oppose Momentum, they seem to want to shut down debate.

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 13:27

DJ* The left as stupid and retarded..it was Scaryclown who said that the right thrived on that...who is correct?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 13:29

Both Labour and the Tories will be after UKIP voters it's Labour that have lost and will continue to do so to UKIP unless they pull themselves together

In numbers they are the third party

BNP (a facist party) have never received a large amount of votes in the UK there votes are irrelevant

deblet · 01/02/2017 13:31

I don't think we are allowed to voice opinions. When I worked for a refuge many years ago the muslim girls who fled there were treated so badly. But we always had to tip toe around the religious parts, couldn't be thought of a racist oh no just help them get away don't challenge the fact we are so tolerant we allow these people to carry on. You can't challenge religion particularly this religion without death threats plus the officials telling you to leave it. I advise you to try and good luck. And its not just that I used to live near a village which has been swamped by people from the eastern block. The government has not made provision for extra school places, housing or doctors or dentists When you complain you are called racist and told to let it go. Our councillors were told to stop being prejudice when they were just stating facts. Four families crammed into three bedroomed houses. It is just wrong. Its not that easy to speak up and be heard. And its not their fault they were promised a good life here from the adverts in Poland. One of my friends from the school was devastated when she realised how they were going to live. But anybody speaking up were shouted down. Its only when the news took it up it went to parliament and it was listened to. But that took years. Freedom of speech is rapidly disappearing.

LouKout · 01/02/2017 13:32

It isnt disappearing. And the views expressed are becoming more right wing and even far right wing by the year.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:36

scaryteacher

Because politics polarises people. I've done it myself when I've woken up on the morning of yet another post-election tanking. Those on the left (like me) who have been around a bit see Momentum for what it is; a bunch of mostly well meaning, if starry-eyed, idealists being manipulated by the same old trot entryists of the SWP and Worker's Liberty. Momentum is even starting to have its own civil war now, and good riddance.
It's Brexit that has confused my politics somewhat. I'm still the same old soft Left type that nods approvingly at the possibility of rail nationalisation, but I'm being represented more by Anna Soubry than most in my own party, even Keir Starmer (who I was really starting to warm to) Corbyn is just a car crash, even his True Believers are starting to recognise that at last. I'd happily support a different party to get Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart out of parliament, if I was in either of their constituencies.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:41

deblet

You're completely able to voice your opinions, you've just got to prepared to back your argument up with evidence. As I've said, we live in a liberal democracy.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:43

The lack of investment in infrastructure is a government decision. They're prepared to accept the benefits of a migrant workforce, without wishing to provide for the strains on local communities.

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 13:44

Tell you what Cock, you can have Soubry (please, take her), and we can have Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart, both good eggs imo!

Do you wish that David Miliband had been elected leader rather than Ed? I think if someone like Dan Jarvis gets in, then the tables may turn, as he strikes me as principled and level headed, as did John Smith. I was surprised that Tris Hunt resigned though...but the lure of the V&A was evidently too much.

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 13:46

Scaryteach, would you like to take a swing at this bit:

The rise is because, as in the 70s banks and companies have taken all the spare money and are screwing everybody to make up for it, and there isnt a redisdributive government so the poor are getting angrier and angrier and looking for scapegoats right wing nastiness happens with big poverty, when only bankers are creaming it in as in the 80s ..and the 1930s

Have we forgotten the on-going crisis? Why is bank rate still at 0%?

DJBaggySmalls · 01/02/2017 13:49

scaryteacher You have deliberately misunderstood my post to try make a point.
Forums are stuffed with right wingers making some point or other; its tedious. One of the points I see them constantly make is that the left aren't very clever or well informed.

The fact is that the right thrive when times are bad, and recede when times are good.
Its because Fascism is an emotional response to a perceived threat, such as war or starvation. Humans want to know which group they belong to and who is the enemy.
It is supposed to die down when the threat has passed, and we return to a more relaxed community behaviour.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/02/2017 13:51

The increased support for UKIP in the North is coming from ex Labour voters.

A fact many seem to want to forget or face.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:52

Scary.

David Milliband by was too tainted by the whole 'extraordinary rendition' thing for me. I was quite fond of Ed, in a way, even if he did introduce the ridiculous 'three quid supporter' idea, which contributed to Compo being elected.
I don't know if Dan Jarvis has the required ambition, although his military experience would be a great electoral asset. I'm honestly not surprised by Tristram Hunt and Jamie Reed finding other jobs; I don't blame them either. If I was a Labour MP at the moment I'd see becoming a paperboy as a cunning move. It's horrible seeing my Party do this to itself; from a viable party of government to a protest movement in a few years.

Medeci · 01/02/2017 13:53

Its the internet innit Grin
There have always been people with right wing views, but in the past people didn't discuss politics (or religion) in general conversation.
Now everyone can have argue online, those with the strongest convictions often persuade others to share their views.
It seems that right wingers are winning the argument.

20nil · 01/02/2017 13:55

Just to echo cock, there are millions of us on the left who despise Corbyn. I could weep when I think about what's happening to this country while he and his idiot friends fuck about.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 13:59

20nil

Exactly. I'd quite like to win an election, thanks very much. I've been on enough bloody marches for one lifetime, and they've all achieved the square root of fuck all; I'm fed up of waiting in the cold on the Embankment, blowing a bloody whistle.

DJBaggySmalls · 01/02/2017 14:04

John Smith was the last Labour leader I could really support 100%. the man had integrity. No politician today could hold a candle to him.

GeordieShorefg · 01/02/2017 14:07

Yes there is a surge - I think people are fed up of feeling forced to put others before themselves, to the extent that we treat others far better than we treat ourselves, and our kids and our elderly.

We have given so much away that there is nothing left for those that have paid in for years, people dying on hospital trollies and elderly being treated like shit. our kids with very limited futures, not really something to be proud of

MephistophelesApprentice · 01/02/2017 14:07

It's just the usual struggle about which part of society gets to wield the Shame-Bat - the ultimate weapon of social power. You make people feel shame, you make them weaker and powerless, but above all undeserving of justice.

When I was young, conservatives (particularly christians) had the Shame-Bat and used it to beat down on anyone who was gay, ethnic minority or inappropriately female. But, fundamentally, our society is still mostly opposed to making people feel shame about things outside their control (though there is debate about what is, and isn't under control). Gradually, the politically correct movement worked hard to eliminate those factors in our society that tried to inflict shame on people for the nature of their birth.

So the Shame-Bat passed to those who used it to beat on people who were racist, sexist or sexualist. Which is absolutely fair, as these things are not accidents of birth but bad habits which can be controlled. See how people feel about being called racist, sexist or homophobic these days - they're obviously powerful labels of shame and quite appropriately so.

But then, as always happens, the people with the Shame-Bat started getting indiscriminate. They started attaching those entirely deserving shame labels to accidents of birth - men were all sexist, white people were all racist, straight people were all homophobic. The people who enjoy waving the Shame-Bat are all fundamentally the same, regardless of the ideals that they claim. Because they were unopposed (no-one could convince them that they were no different to those who said women were all weak, black people all criminal, gay people all perverts) they continued to escalate. Feminists are all TERFs, Cis people are all transphobic, Jews are all zionist-fascists.

And so, gradually, people have become tired of being beaten with the Shame-Bat when they feel they don't deserve it. They stop flinching, they stop surrendering, they stop feeling shame at the labels. They develop a numbness to the beatings, and therefore a numbness to all the genuine shame-labels as well. They appropriate the methods that were first used to give the Shame wielders power (identity politics becomes white nationalism, democracy becomes populism, post-modernism becomes post-truth) and make a grab for the Shame-Bat themselves.

To a sociology student, it's all rather fascinating.

BeMorePanda · 01/02/2017 14:09

My take on it goes like this:

Neoliberalism (extreme deregulated economy), embraced by both main parties in UK & USA, has reached some kind of crescendo and we are all crashing and burning.

It's largely unnamed and it's very confusing for us all to get our heads around - but basically the rich ARE getting richer and the poor ARE getting poorer and this trajectory is set to continue.

People are now starting to feel the way neoliberalism is degrading their lives more and more, and they are reacting. Not necessarily the "right" way (neither Trump of the Tories are the cure for example, neither is leaving EU), but people feel so disenfranchised from day to day meaningful politics they react where they are given the chance (referendum or Presidential election) even though such results may not be in their best interests.

Neoliberalism and the way it has shaped our economy and our lives is very hard to see and no one talks about it. Not many solutions are being offered.

I think history shows when times get tough many people like to blame "others" and the right wing feeds off this.

www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:14

We have given so much away that there is nothing left for those that have paid in for years, people dying on hospital trollies and elderly being treated like shit. our kids with very limited futures, not really something to be proud of

But this is because people aren't asking the right questions. Foreign aid is a drop in the ocean, and it's usually tied to trade deals anyway. The NHS is being run down for idealogical reasons; you only have to read the past writings of the incumbents of the DOH to see that. Poor funding is a choice of government, as is the privatisation of social care. Why do the elderly get 15 minutes per visit, if that? Why do carers often not get paid for travel time? It's because shareholders need their cut.

Aeroflotgirl · 01/02/2017 14:15

I think people are fed up of the liberal left and their soft policies and hug a hoodie type thing, I think anyone who does not agree with the far left politics, or are in the middle, tend to go towards the right, there is really no classification for them.

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 14:15

Yes Bemorepanda. I've read the Monbiot, dead center.

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