To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

[RocketQueenP]

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

Said the same about so many of us .... knocked a lot of us off in wars and whatnot...resulting in population collapse. Now those who did it are are a bit scared and trying to get the survivors to knock off those they imported to keep numbers looking good.

In a nutshell.

There's probably a whole load of reasons that I don't know enough about. But look up Noam Chomsky - he knows rather a lot about these things.

Tulips
The neo-liberal dogmas being slavishly followed by Remainers were partly why I voted Leave. Did the big businesses, elites, wealthy politicians, celebrities, financial service managers, Brussels bureaucrats and bankers who all told us to vote Remain honestly not think people wouldn't understand that they only had their own interests at heart? They honestly seemed to think that they would get their own way not matter what, hence the shock at the result and the knee-jerk labelling of bigots, racists etc, showing the real disdain in which they regard any one not in their circles. These include Left, Guardian-reading circles.

I believe that the people who told us to vote remain did of course have their own personal interests at heart , as did all the people who told us to vote leave . This to me was the most shocking thing about the referendum , the absolute lack of clarity , the hastily cobbled together statistics , the blatant lies and random half truths .

I honestly just worry that the Conservatives will dismantle all the rights that the people of this country currently hold , without the checks and balance that the EU has provided up until now . I hope I am wrong .

Frumpet The Equal Pay Act was 1970, before we joined the EEC,; abortion was legalised in the late 60s, before we joined the EEC....if the Tories really wanted to dismantle people's rights, they would have done it years ago, and not introduced gay marriage, for example. I don't think you realise just how far ahead of much of Europe the UK is with these things.

Scaryteacher I honestly hope you are right

I heard on the news that the EU was debating the continuous influx of immigrants.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38850380

I am just nonplussed by people who are upset about anti immigration views and consider them right wing extremist. The population of these poor African countries counts in its millions. The population of India is in its millions. The population of China is in billions. The majority of the residents of these countries and continents are much poorer than you or I. If I was struggling to feed my family I would strive to move to the west.
Thing is we can't take everyone. Strategies need to be put in place.
Problem now is we just can't debate this issue. It's scary imo that this tide of humanity isn't going to stop in the foreseeable future. But we and the politicians (except Trump) can just wring our hands and watch.

That article states that the EU countries are trying to do something and that the debate is happening . Immigration from EU countries and immigration from those seeking asylum are two seperate issues surely ?

Freedom of movement never included 'everyone' .

So they are reacting to Brexit and Trump as though they are solely cultural reactions to the status quo, rather than economic responses: hence all the racist, xenophobe, fruitloop, racist labels, which are all firmly in the domain of the "culture wars".

I think you have that back-to-front.

I can think of a specific Leaver on MN who was pushing a message of "Vote Leave for cultural reasons; people feel culturally anxious, not economically anxious."

I argued that economic issues (distribution of wealth) mattered but she kept trying to turn the conversation back to unspecified "cultural issues."

(For context, she said she was campaigning on the doorstep for Leave, and I recognised her as a poster who calls herself "right wing" and likes to start threads bashing what she calls the "left wing".)

I can see how a loop could develop - perhaps inadvertently - where some campaigners use the phrase "cultural anxiety" as a dog whistle. Then when a campaign is won, others deny all knowledge and claim, "Duh, of course that wasn't an influence."

In general, I don't think any government forgets completely that "It's the economy, stupid."

But they may either forget that not everyone is experiencing the economy the same way as they are (those at the bottom of the heap certainly don't).

Or they may know and simply not care, and gladly seize on other issues (real or invented) as distraction, be it the Falklands war or "culture politics".

Also in general, economics and any kind of "anxiety" issue are linked.

My observation is that when people are economically secure, they are more likely to be generous and tolerant and relaxed about other people.

When they are economically insecure, anxious about their own existence, continually in a battle for the necessities, they are more likely to become defensive, protectionist, and be more concerned about In groups vs Out groups.

That's not a description of individuals, some of whom buck those trends. But I think it's true over the population in general.

Voting to leave the EU doesn't make you fantastically right wing

I lve n the north-east which remains Labour voting. However, a lot of people voted for Brexit- some of the biggest votes in the country for Brexit- and that is because there is a strong feeling up here that we are the poor relations in the eyes of this Conservative government.
There is lack of investment in the northeast, everything is centralised in Lndon and the south-east. Many jobs are very poorly paid and there is abject poverty in many areas. I met a couple of families through a charity last week who have £78 a week to feed, clothe, entertain, travel, heat and light the lives of two adults and 3&4 children. Benefits have been cut dramatically for the most vulnetable.
Our local council has had its budget cut by almost £50 million in the last 4 years and has been told they will be cut by another £40 million in the next 2 years. Services have been slashed to the poorest in the area.
Nothing is improving in their lives.THey have no sense of hope.
People feel scared about the future and that causes the kinds of feelings that end up interpreted as 'right-wing'. They are not right wing people, they are scared, feel vulnerable and disenfranchised and there are many of them, including the squeezed middle earners who are fed up of a system where they see the rich getting much richer and themselves losing out despite many working very hard but paying more in national insurance, pension contributions, now council taxes going up - yet services and pensions are reduced and will continue to be so.
The Labour party offer no viable alternatives.
So people feel trapped, vulnetable and become defensive and protectionsist- fed up with European fat cats telling us what we will do, who can live here, that our borders should be open to almost anyone. They feel angry that they see the government allowing hundreds of thousands into the country- and the perception is they are a burden on healthcare, benefits, housing and education, yet many famillies already struggle to get access/support from those services.
The same has happened in the USA.
It is a classic situation where people start to listen to the likes of Trump and Farage who speak as if they represent the ordinary person's interests. Trump's speeches have been analysed and are simplistic language which can be accessed by oeople with reading ages of 7-8yrs. They therefore are accessible to the poorest who are often the least educated.
Politicians have made a huge mistake by not listening to these groups in society. The gap has widened significantly between the very rich and the rest of us.
By nature we are greedy. As we earn more mney we want to kerp it and don't want to support the poorest people who 'soak up' resources that we pay for- research shows that the majority of people as they grpw more wealthy become more conservative and don't support parties whose policies mean higher taxes to fund better public services. It is a vicious circle of political see-saws and no party is prepared to do the right thing because they would lose votes and power.

Sorry for all the typos. Duh!

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

One thing both the US and UK have in common is a far wider divide between rich and poor and below average education systems relative to the rest of the developed world.

For example, the very top universities in the UK and US are the best in the world but these are really only available to a very small percentage of the population. The quality of education received by the overwhelming majority of the population is so poor in quality that they have little or no chance. The majority of the population have effectively been locked out.

Well said LuLu.

The frightening thing is that in ten years' time the situation will likely be an awful lot worse for places such as the north-east.

Conservative policies including cutbacks in healthcare and benefits combined with a reduction in industrial manufacturing due to a loss of export trade with the EU will completely and utterly decimate what is left these areas.

It is extremely worrying what the fallout will be.

I give it five years- it's a shame but we did it to ourselves.

Farage, gove, Johnson, Rees-mogg aren't going to be the ones suffering.

Great post LuLu

All Farage, Trump and the like have to do is to pretend to listen while weaving in their own political views

Not only have many not been listen to they have been ignored and probably the most damaging sneered at for being so foolish to believe populist rhetoric

I don't think it's about believing it's about people saw the chance for a change and they took that gamble becuase what was on offer was nothing new nothing it's was the same old

I read this and shuddered: UK council cuts will lead to more people sleeping rough, charities say

"Several councils are preparing to axe housing support services, including hostel beds, refuges and sheltered housing, as they struggle to meet the demands of a fresh round of multimillion-pound budget cuts from April. In Sunderland, the housing support budget for homeless people in the city is being cut to zero.

And I'll bet good English pounds there'll be someone with a simplistic story of "blame the immigrants, not enough houses" ready to exploit the inevitable rise in homelessness and suffering.

I don't think the education system in this country is that bad tbh . The national curriculum is bonkers in my opinion , because of the sheer volume that has been added over the decades to 'improve' it .Trying to cram in concepts that we didn't learn until secondary age , whilst leaving little time to get the foundations of English and Maths right seems ludicrous to me .
However I do not agree that the majority of the population have been locked out .