Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

296 replies

RocketQueenP · 01/02/2017 11:25

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

OP posts:
unlucky83 · 01/02/2017 14:44

I think it is a backlash... in the UK Labour under Blair in ways was more right wing than most of the the Tory party.
The poor needed 'looking after' and helping - (and were patronised). The help took the form that seemed right to people who went to private school followed by Oxbridge...champagne socialists - who didn't have a fucking clue.
At the same time there was the PC brigade - who jumped on everything and made it difficult to express any view that didn't tally exactly with theirs.
Blair encouraged mass immigration - and didn't restrict the new EU states (as other EU countries did) - from something I read it was to a) to piss off the Tory party and b) to increase the Labour vote - the immigrants would likely be at the lower end of the earning scale and would be grateful for the opportunity - decrease the effect of the middle England vote.

I think what sums it up is that woman in Rochdale and Gordon Brown - she expressed what was to her a valid concern and although he nodded along etc - he dismissed her as a bigot. He wasn't listening to what she said.
Poorer people saying our wages have gone down due to competition with immigrants, whole sections of our neighbourhood are now unrecognisable - we have problems with integration. We don't like the way certain sections of the community treat women as second class citizens etc.
And what they were seeing with their own eyes, experiencing was denied - immigration brings in wealth etc. According to the statics it does - but they weren't seeing it - they are only seeing the disadvantages - more expensive housing, lower wages etc.
And we have to respect people's religious views, they are more important than our (long fought for) equality laws.
People -even in authorities - frightened to raise issues or take action in case they were labelled with 'racist' - as illustrated by Rotherham.
Even small problems eg I know one area where there were congestion problems caused by constant parking on double yellow lines and in bus lanes . It was in a predominantly Asia area. I heard someone on a bus (struck in traffic with a blocked bus lane) saying if they sent a parking warden along here, they'd raked it in - we wouldn't have to pay council tax for a year from the income in fines ...and then someone else saying they won't though).
And I want to make it clear - that is not the 'fault' of the immigrants - it is because the authorities were too afraid to take action - too afraid of being labelled racist, the PC brigade. I'm sure a lot of us would find it convenient to park right outside our work and a lot would - if we knew we wouldn't get a ticket etc, we would get away with it. It is human nature. And it is also human nature for people to see things like that as unfair - and blame the immigrants - rather than the people who were letting them get away with that.

Even now talking about the NHS crisis - the elephant in the room is our rapidly expanding population - as is true for school places and the housing shortage. It isn't racist or xenophobic or bigoted - it is fact - our population has increased at an incredible rate - we are seeing the problems now.
Yes we should have increased provision and invested in these services - but that was hard to do in a country that is running at a deficit and when we had no idea or control of the number of people who were coming - and we are an attractive destination - free healthcare and education and a minimum wage that is 2 -3 times that in their own country ...and we have a reputation of being nice - soft.
And the widening gap between rich and poor - it is very easy for someone who is far away from it all and wealthy (eg Bob Geldorf or Lily Allen) to lecture people on what is the right thing to do - when it doesn't affect them at all (except maybe they get a cheaper plumber and find it easier to get a cheap cleaner). I think that is another problem - what makes a famous actor/musician think they are someone whose opinion we should respect?
Like it or not the majority of the American people voted for Trump - and the Muslim ban was one of his policies - so why do actors at an awards or whatever evening think they should protest? Why should people listen to them? Because they are good at pretending to be someone they aren't?
And the left still haven't caught up - they are still calling people ignorant and stupid and ill educated for not believing that all immigration is a good thing...or for voting Brexit or for voting Trump etc.
When they need to be listened to and taken seriously and if their views are (really) wrong explain why - not tell them not to believe the evidence of their own eyes - or say that it is because they are poorer than they were and need someone/thing to lash out at...
I think the Labour party may well be dead ...has completely lost sight of its roots and origins . And is not listening - and that is why the SNP are doing so well in Scotland - because they don't think Labour represents them any more and the SNP are the next best option.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 14:46

Seriously though, my mother was politically active when I was growing up and I was encouraged to read several sources and to question things. I don't think I'm any cleverer than the next person (states the obvious)
I also deal with alot of bureaucracy because I have a severely disabled (adult) child. It unfortunately gives you a unique insight at the powers at play. The good, the bad and the ugly.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:47

I think it is a backlash... in the UK Labour under Blair in ways was more right wing than most of the the Tory party.

No, it wasn't.
The use of the term 'PC Brigade' doesn't help either.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:48

Like it or not the majority of the American people voted for Trump

No, they didn't. He lost the popular vote, but won on the electoral college system.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/02/2017 14:49

I think the Labour party may well be dead

Unfortunately I agree.

Boulshired · 01/02/2017 14:50

The largest problem with politics is 80% of politicians it is the same suit different rosettes. Labours broad church only works if they bloody agree. I will not vote Corbyn, I will not vote Farron (would vote Clegg) responsibility has to go to the opposition as well as the voters. The argument that Clinton was better than Trump is just not good enough, Clinton was not good enough, Ed milliband was not good enough. Corbyn is not good enough.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:50

When they need to be listened to and taken seriously and if their views are (really) wrong explain why - not tell them not to believe the evidence of their own eyes - or say that it is because they are poorer than they were and need someone/thing to lash out at...
I think the Labour party may well be dead ...has completely lost sight of its roots and origins . And is not listening - and that is why the SNP are doing so well in Scotland - because they don't think Labour represents them any more and the SNP are the next best option.

I broadly agree with this bit.

derxa · 01/02/2017 14:55

Ed milliband was not good enough Although to be fair to him he looks like a shining star now. I saw him recently on PMQs and without the responsibility of Leader of the Opp he was cogent and witty.

KellysZeros · 01/02/2017 14:55

I also think politics goes in cycles, so I hope this won't be forever. I don't have any original views on this, so excuse me for regurgitating someone else's thoughts, but I think we're seeing globally a movement where the middle class in the west hasn't seen any real increases in wealth over the past few decades, we're seeing islamic extremism still growing, we're seeing the coming of computers that will take more jobs away.

As a result of all this, people around the world are grasping for simple solutions and trying to put barriers up to change the change getting in.

I feel so sad when I watch Trump supporters in the US as Trump isn't going to help them - where are they going to go it becomes apparent to them?

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 14:57

Although to be fair to him he looks like a shining star now. I saw him recently on PMQs and without the responsibility of Leader of the Opp he was cogent and witty.

I know. There's a twitter account called The Miliverse that tweets as if he's now PM. He's forever falling over stuff, or eating things badly, but the gist is that life is better under him, if a bit dull.
I'd take 'dull' at the moment.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 15:00

Another one who agrees

my only hope is that Corbyn will be back of the back benches very soon

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:01

Because the spectrum of political opinion looks like this

L --------------- R

and the spectrum of government looks like this

L _ R

and our media looks like this

L _ R

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:01

Well, THAT didn't work. I'll draw it out instead!

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 15:02

make I seem to recall the Wall Street crash in 1929 (not personally!), when banks went under too.

I don't think the 70s were down to companies and banks. Iirc, the highest tax rate was 80% and Healy had the stated ambition of taxing the rich until the pips squeak, thus driving those who could make money offshore. I think this www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141012115344-1088431-a-new-age-of-imf-bailouts-great-britain-in-the-1970s is interesting as well for some context. I remember the winter of discontent (personally), and the three day week.

I think the govt is more redistributive than in the 70s and the 80s when I was briefly unemployed. There is far more support for families than there was then in terms of tax credits, child benefit, subsidised childcare etc. Whether it is redistributive enough is another matter, and the tax rates that would be required on the nordic and Belgian levels to pay for that are very high. One could argue raising the tax free allowance and taking people out of tax altogether is redistributive in itself. Our Flemish neighbours were Shock and Envy at the UK tax free allowance and rates, and the car tax too!

The bank rate might rise soon, though it's been nice that the mortgage rate has been low, indeed, the lowest I can remember (and I was glad to be on a 10.8% fix on Black Wednesday when we crashed out of the ERM).
I don't think the UK has suffered as much as some places (Greece) through having the ability to set our own rates by virtue of having our own currency.

I think anger happens with poverty, but not always right wing nastiness, depending on your political persuasion.

DJ not at all; I have bits of lyrics and verse hanging around in my head, hence the brightest and best comment. If you are referring to the 'thick' comment, I was referring to the post by scaryclown made early on where she indicated that the right fed on voters being as thick as fuck. I was merely pointing out that the same accusation could be made of the left, not that the Left were thick. I am equally bored with left wingers who try to point score all the time, and won't debate.

I don't agree that the right thrives when times are bad; I think there have to be balances, and that what we are seeing at present is a correction of the shift to the Left. The pendulum will swing the other way again. I also disagree about Fascism. One could argue that the French and Russian Revolutions were born from starvation and war, and I don't know that I would class either of those as fascist revolutions. The pogroms of the Stalinist era weren't fascist either, but the communist state dealing with those who disagreed with it.

cock agree about Dan Jarvis being an asset, though I understand why he won't run at the moment. Military service is an undoubted strain on family life, let alone the workload and exposure of being Labour leader at present.

I've seen the Tories go through the same thing in the Howard, Hague and IDS years and despaired. With people like Jarvis, the Labour party will be back.

makeourfuture · 01/02/2017 15:03

It is a tremendous battle of conscience...between love and hope, and fear and hate.

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:05

Here we go. This is what I think is happening. Basically, there is no mainstream media representation of left-leaning views. The media has lurched rightwards, and now exists almost exclusively at the centrist to right wing end of the spectrum. This is driving politicians rightwards also.

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge
PausingFlatly · 01/02/2017 15:06

BeMorePanda, I agree strongly with your post at 14:09:49.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 15:06

I am backing Keir Starmer to be the next leader I think with his experience he would be ideal at this point in time

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:06

Basically, there is no mainstream media representation of left-leaning views.

I'd say that the Guardian and Mirror are still there.

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:06

(Oh, and I agree that New Labour are in part to blame for this).

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:07

I am backing Keir Starmer to be the next leader I think with his experience he would be ideal at this point in time'

I like him too; very disappointed at his approach to Brexit though.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 15:09

I think they are priming up Dan Jarvis....

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:09

No, the Guardian is resolutely centrist now, just look at the coverage of Corbyn. Of course, any paper is always a mishmash of different views and they do have a couple of journos that are slightly more left, but their politics are still largely liberal/social democrat rather than fully redistributive. It has been, for some time, the voice of a north London media bubble that is very out of touch.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 15:09

The media has always been more to the right now we have social media there is a larger left view available to access

Right wing policies have become standard becuas it wins votes Labour have had to take on that even left wing voters think immigration needs to be capped/controlled

TheLambShankRedemption · 01/02/2017 15:11

and the BBC