to think that T shouldn't be linked with LGB?

[lulucappuccino]

Why is transsexual, which I thought was all about gender, always mentioned along with lesbian, gay and bisexual, obviously types of sexuality?

You wouldn't say blonde, brunette, grey and men; or short, tall, medium and women.

AIBU to think these are separate things, or am I a dimwit?

YANBU - I think the same

If you're a dimwit then so am I, because I agree with you.

I've always thought this too but soon the trans activists will be here telling us we're wrong.

Agree but its up to the membership to decide. Of course it will end up run by the transwomen lobby who are often also gay ie previous men who are attracted to women. Not at all the same as the way the rest of the world is run by (rich white) hetero men obviously

You're not wrong. In fact, I think that the logic of each contradicts the other. So only one can be 'right'.

Well, sometimes people do separate them. Depends on the context IMO.

But there is a fairly straightforward link, in that sexuality is usually understood in relation to sex/gender (ie., it's the sexes/genders you're attracted to that defines your sexuality). So if someone grows up thinking of themselves as a straight man, then comes out as a trans woman, they might find that they also have to work out what it's like to identify as a woman who's attracted to women?

I know some people transition and remain oriented the same way (straight people remaining straight, or gay people remaining gay) even though they sex to whom they're attracted has actually shifted.

But I can imagine in both of those situations you'd have enough in common with LGB people you might well have things to talk about that were shared.

When it's a problem, is when people think being trans is a sexuality, which as you say, isn't terrible helpful.

OP, do you have a personal interest in this question i.e. are you L, B, G or T?

Why do you ask, acasual?

I agree. But I also think we might be 'on the wrong side of history' 😞

I'm interested to know whether you're minding your own business or other people's.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues so many groups do separate them, but sometimes they're put together because they suffer from similar types of prejudice. You can be a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't - Stonewall were given a really hard time before they became trans-inclusive and then a hard time afterwards by others. I think it makes sense to link the groups in some instances and not in others.

There are lots of trans activists who believe in the separation btw, as well as lots of LGB people who like a trans-inclusive approach. It's not a LGB vs T issue, just different ways of looking at how best to resolve the injustice that all those people can face.

Isn't enquiring about the OP's sexuality rather like minding her business not your own?!

Doesn't it occur to you she might not be fully comfortable talking in personal terms - or might be asking because she is thinking about a family member or friend?

Its an intrresting area robins .I read about an study a few months ago about this. Results: Straight women are mostly attracted to both men and women, lesbians mostly to the female body, gay men mostly to the male body and straight men mostly to the female body. Conclusion: straight women especially are influenced by cultural norms etc but lesbian women and men more by biology

(These kind of studies are not always al that reliable, but i found it interesting)

Totally agree. On face value, as a die hard liberal with gay friends etc I assumed that transgender rights were equally important and would evolve as gay rights have.

But mn has enlightened me and I now see that it is a completely different, unrelated topic. Meanwhile the diehard liberals on my FB feed are sharing memes about transgender rights. I don't get into it with them in case I cause offence.

Yanbu. I feel the same

Ooh quick question in this subject

Ds1 and i were talking about this and he said that there are so many different ways of idetifying ie gay, lesbian, asexual, bisexual that he thought maybe a better name would be

Gay +

I said that as far as i knew gay and lesbian were seen as being different and that it should include both at the very least...although i took his point regarding wanting to include everybody

Would i be right in thinking that

And yes i agree with the OP although i understand why it was added in the first place...well i think i do

Trans rights are equally important Morris Presumably that's not what you meant though, just that the barriers are different and you feel should be tackled separately to LGB rights?

bomb - it is interesting ... but I admit, my heart sinks when I hear the finding about straight women, because I agree with you, it's so unreliable, and I do suspect anything that confirms exactly what heterosexual men want to believe (which this does). Everyone wants to think straight women's desires are just oh-so 'flexible'. And it's also playing into that good old stereotype that lesbians and gay men who ever have sex with someone of the opposite sex, must be less good, or more dishonest, than those who don't.

I feel as if I'm criticising unfairly - god knows, I've not seen the study you mention - but I am generally very suspicious of them, as you can tell!

I agree. I think the history is that the movement started as 'queer' so any person who wasn't simply straight came together -- after all, everyone was more or less fighting for the same thing, simple acceptance. As time has gone on, it's pretty clear to me that the T agenda is often in direct opposition to the L agenda, for example, and I wonder how long organisations like Stonewall can continue to hold things together.

rufus - Gay + would piss me right off.

Lesbian erasure, isn't it? It would be like referring to women as 'Men etc.' or 'Non-men'.

Oh, wait, the Green Party did that, didn't they ...

Rufus the problem with Gay + is that the LGB rights movement has been dominated by (white) men and it's really important we talk about the distinct issues faced by others in that group. But it's true that, unless you see bi as an umbrella term, there are a lot of definitions that get left out!

Doesn't it occur to you she might not be fully comfortable talking in personal terms - or might be asking because she is thinking about a family member or friend?

The OP is quite at liberty to make either or both of those points.

I think the history is that the movement started as 'queer'

No, it definitely didn't.

'Queer' has been a pejorative term until quite recently, and a lot of people still find it offensive.