to think that T shouldn't be linked with LGB?

[lulucappuccino]

Why is transsexual, which I thought was all about gender, always mentioned along with lesbian, gay and bisexual, obviously types of sexuality?

You wouldn't say blonde, brunette, grey and men; or short, tall, medium and women.

AIBU to think these are separate things, or am I a dimwit?

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

But being gay to a trans person means basically the opposite of what it means to a gay non trans person
A lesbian trans woman is in fact (according to the strict definitions of the words) a heterosexual male. The very opposite of a viable sexual partner for a homosexual female.
But many many many trans women identify as gay - attracted to females - which creates a problem when they want access to lesbian spaces and lesbian bodies. Self identification is fine, but it doesn't turn a penis into a vulva.
Of course there must be trans men who identify as gay and want to have sex with gay men but I doubt there will be much of a movement to shame gay men into allowing trans men into their spaces and sex lives. Because patriarchy and gender harm FEMALES

[VashtaNerada]

Ah I see! I genuinely didn't understand, wasn't being goady. But in either definition of sex/gender you'd get gay and straight trans people, surely? And as I've said before, many non-trans people are happy for people to self-define their gender, so it's not just trans people saying it - I'm not trans but I don't give a shit which pronouns people use. Totally take the point that we can't allow that to lead to the erasure of biologically-born women's rights though.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

Vashta of course she doesn't mean that
She means that being homo sexual means being attracted to people of the opposite sex and trans theory posits that gender > sex so people with penises are lesbians and valid sexual partners for homosexual females.
The two positions are mutually exclusive.

[VashtaNerada]

Not sure I understand Vestal - do you mean that you consider trans people to always be straight regardless of who they're attracted to?

[VestalVirgin]

AIBU to think these are separate things, or am I a dimwit?

They are completely separate things.

And not only that:

LG and T are mutually exclusive.

Homosexual people are attracted to people of their own sex. They are not attracted to people of the opposite sex, regardless what those people identify as.

The transgender lobby pretends that identification is the only thing that matters, thereby contradicting the lived reality of homosexuals.

[NellWilsonsWhiteHair]

The bi people I have known in long term relationships with someone of the opposite sex have all (four) very much needed to be proactively part of some sort of LGB(T) thing. I know they all experienced a sense that their identity/history was made invisible on a daily basis because they were perceived as straight by so much of the world, which was a strange and not especially pleasant culture shock (for all they mostly also acknowledged certain perks to 'passing'). So they very much sought out queer space to counter-balance that.

[Italiangreyhound]

I wonder if any of these groups would benefit from being separated from each other more than others would, LGBT I mean. I wonder if the 'T' would benefit less from being separated?

I also wonder if people who are bi feel a great need to be involved in LGBT if they settle down with a person who is the opposite sex, whether that person is straight or bi?

Just wondered. I know two bi people in real life but it don't know anyone who is bi but partnered with an opposite sex person. Just curious, wonder if anyone knows.

[cleaty]

Yes of course there are differences between LGB people, sometimes very big ones. But the thing they do have in common is being attracted to the same sex. That is what unites them.

[Snowshimmer]

LGB people are all attracted to the same sex and have that in common. T is something completely different.

[TiggyD]

And bi people are sometimes thought of as unwilling to admit they're gay or lesbian by gay or lesbian people, and they say bi doesn't exist. The gbltqi community is a very fragmented thing already. All different but coming together to stand up for each other's rights.

[PiperChapstick]

YANBU at all OP. I never understood it. And at the risk of sounding like one of those DM readers who says "my neighbour is forrin and doesn't agree with immigration"... My oldest friend is gay and this really gets to her. She goes to LGBT cafes, clubs and groups and always has said she has nothing whatsoever in common with trans people. She once said "it's like they lumped all the misfits together so they only had to create one group"

[Alisvolatpropiis]

So a transwoman oap broke the glass ceiling for Helen.

Well that's nice.

[BillSykesDog]

And name a woman who has featured on the front cover of vogue at Caitlyn Jenner's age.

Caitlyn Jenner wasn't on the cover of Vogue, she was on the cover of Vanity Fair. Caitlyn Jenner is 66. This month's Vanity Fair cover is Meryl Streep, also 66.

[GreaseIsNotTheWord]

Of course yanbu.

LGB are sexual orientations. T is not.

Lumping them together is silly.

[Italiangreyhound]

cleaty "That is what happens when you try and post when doing other things." I never do it any other way! Currently watching 'Silent Witness'!!

[Italiangreyhound]

Vashta re "I've also met some extremely vulnerable transwomen who don't display anything like privilege and have had truly shitty lives."

There are definitely some trans kids who have grown up feeling that they do not conform to being the sex they were born and identify differently. I personally feel very differently about people who have that experience to people who identify later in life.

I do feel very sorry that the support that trans kids should get and the safety and protection of all people is being sidelined by trans activists who are only interested in things that affirm their view of themselves.

[cleaty]

Yes I did. That is what happens when you try and post when doing other things.

[Italiangreyhound]

Cleaty I totally know what you mean in your post a couple of pages back but you used the words the wrong way round (but I still get what you meant). You said "...transgender includes transvestites. Transsexual is a much more exclusive term. These are a small number within Trnasgender, and they are the people who have surgery and try to totally pass. Many transexal people are unhappy about the wider transgender community as they feel (and I think they are right), that they often have nothing in common with them."

And I think you meant... Transexualr, and they are the people who have surgery and try to totally pass - is that correct?

[Italiangreyhound]

Unicow did you ever visit Singapore? The MRT is the train system there!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Rapid_Transit_%28Singapore%29

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

It's completely comparable. Sarandon was at an awards show and she was vilified for displaying saggy cleavage, not for dressing inappropriately. That vanity fair cover is bullshit- no female in her 60s would be photographed in that pose, in that outfit. Ever. 60+ women are supposed to be de sexualised whereas Jenner is apparently a youthful sex symbol suddenly - regardless of the fact that without the trowelled on slap and wig they would look rough as any 60+ person who has had a disturbing amount of facial cosmetic surgery.
The lauding of Jenner is bullshit and highlights how Jenner is NOT a woman because a woman would never get the deferential and respectful treatment Jenner gets.

[TiggyD]

Susan Sarandon was disgusting for showing her natural, beautiful, sexy cleavage yet Caitlin Jenner is totes sexy and brave When Sarandon was presenting a memorial where recently deceased people were being remembered. Some people said it was not appropriate. Not really comparable.

[frumpet]

Completely misses the point but I do think single cubicles for all is definitely the way forward , everyone has to queue

[Movingonmymind]

To answer the OP, you are definitely not being unreasonable. Think trans should no more be related to LGB than feminism, well especially Not feminism. Trans should be a separate lobby group not fighting to share the limited bench space of the above groups who after all make a far far greater proportion of the population than this tiny minority group which too often dilutes others' agendas especially in regard to women's rights

[ApocalypseSlough]

Vashta that's the nub if it. And by silencing as terfs anyone who doesn't go along 100% with the loudest trans thinking they are further marginalising those very vulnerable people. For every gobby Paris there are countless Vickys