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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that T shouldn't be linked with LGB?

193 replies

lulucappuccino · 13/04/2016 09:00

Why is transsexual, which I thought was all about gender, always mentioned along with lesbian, gay and bisexual, obviously types of sexuality?

You wouldn't say blonde, brunette, grey and men; or short, tall, medium and women.

AIBU to think these are separate things, or am I a dimwit? Smile

OP posts:
Seeyounearertime · 14/04/2016 20:15

Yanbu trans is a lifestyle choice, lgb is not.

Confused

Yeah.... Cause all those trans people that have killed themselves chose to be trans.
All those transwomen and men that have lost their families did so on a whim.
All those transgendered folk woke up one morning and thought,
"I've got thousands of pounds, tons of free time an incredibly high pain threshold, I think I'll change sex today cause I aint got much on"

RiverTam · 14/04/2016 20:23

Most trans people don't change sex, about 80% don't. I think there is a difference between a transsexual and a transgender person. And the reason TG people are at risk of suicide is because of mental health issues that transing don't erase, and because we're not allowed to look at it as a mental health issue. People are being failed enormously by the current narrative. They are being sold a lie, and in order for that lie to succeed the rest of society has to collude with it. Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid.

user838383 · 14/04/2016 20:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TiggyD · 14/04/2016 20:29

...a mental health issue... That's what they used to say about LGB too.

livewyre · 14/04/2016 20:31

RiverTam Agree, too.

How many of us feel 'abnormal'?

How many of us get the sense we're doing 'it' wrong?

I'd say pretty much everyone at some point.

Pathologising that feeling, and then offering surgery(!!!) based on that, is crazy. We wouldn't do it for any other body dysmorphia.

BombadierFritz · 14/04/2016 20:31

Is that any reason to put the two groups together tiggy?

Pangurban1 · 14/04/2016 20:31

Well, with the cosmetic surgery bit, it would not be different than tons of people (take the Kardashians and Jenners). Loads of people go under the knife for cosmetic reasons. Sharon Osborne, Michael Jackson. Even someone who wants a different nose, facelift or big fake boobies that don't sag like natural ones. Arse implants. Getting rid of things that stick out (and you don't want them to). People who want to alter their appearance do this all the time, in increasing numbers.

RiverTam · 14/04/2016 20:32

So do you think that because mistakes were made with LGB that automatically means they're mistakes with regard to this?

YvaineStormhold · 14/04/2016 20:34

I made this point at work in the company of a gay mate and he put me right.

He said that the trans community had stood shoulder to shoulder with the gay community in promoting gay rights, and for that reason he was happy for them all to be grouped together.

I checked my privilege and decided he knew better than I did.

I still think I'm right though

livewyre · 14/04/2016 20:34

Body dysmorphia of any body part except the genitals is widely recognised as a mental illness.

Only when it involves genitals do we offer surgery on the NHS.

Crazy in every way.

Suicide is due to mental illness. Suicide is never not due to mental illness. Mentally well people do not commit suicide. Suicide prevention involves treatment of their mental illness. Not mutilation of healthy bodies.

We don't let people starve themselves to death because they 'identify' as a fat person while thin. Why do we pay for people to have risky surgery on a healthy functioning body?

user838383 · 14/04/2016 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

livewyre · 14/04/2016 20:36

But not buying the whole 'gender' thing these days makes people think you're homophobic, when you're not.

Pangurban1 · 14/04/2016 20:39

You could state that about anything, though, and try to associate or attach anything on that tenuous basis. It doesn't imply it is correctly equated For instance, if someone calls hoarding a mental health issue.

You could say, 'Hoarding a mental health issue... That's what they used to say about LGB too.

Or alcoholism. Wasn't there some research into hereditary susceptibility to addiction or alcoholism?

LGBTHS

H for hoarders and S for substance abusers

Pangurban1 · 14/04/2016 20:57

Anorexia is another one. Maybe laws affecting people without eating disorder to give credibility to anorexia as not being a disorder would equate to the shutting down of issues that affect female adult humans to give credibility to the claims of others.

Oh and I just have to say it. One does not 'identify' as female. It is a biological sex. Humans come in biological sexes. People can go on and on about gender, but biology is biology.

Do you remember the woman who transitioned in america. Cut off boobies and took artificial male hormones. Then got pregnant and was deemed the first 'man' to have a baby. Their female biology allowed them to do that.

HamaTime · 14/04/2016 21:01

He said that the trans community had stood shoulder to shoulder with the gay community in promoting gay rights, and for that reason he was happy for them all to be grouped together

The trans community is shitting all over the lesbian community so where does that leave us? Presumably with the lesbian community having to be passive and nice and accommodating while men say they must suck ladydick or be labeled hideous bigots. It's becoming near impossible to be happy for L and T to be grouped together.

oneowlgirl · 14/04/2016 21:03

YANBU Op.

TiggyD · 14/04/2016 21:16

The trans community is shitting all over the lesbian community... And would you say the muslim community are currently killing everybody?
...while men say they must suck ladydick or be labeled hideous bigots. And what would you call somebody that labels an entire group of people due to the actions of an extremist minority?

And by "men" I take it you're referring to trans women. What would you call somebody who constantly referred to lesbians as "women who just haven't found the right man yet"? You are denying the existence of a whole minority group there.

SallyDonovan · 14/04/2016 21:24

I hate this 'check your privilege' shit.

The gay men I know, in general, (and of course there are exceptions) have very little to say on the trans issue because it doesn't affect them really.

Whereas the trans issue is a massive deal for lesbians and bi women because the trans agenda is often at the expense of our rights and safe spaces. For years, I attended a monthly lesbian and bi female support group in a town near my home. It was part book club, part wine club and part support. It was lovely. A space once a month where I could absolutely be myself. I don't go anymore. A few years ago, members of the trans community lobbied to be able to join and, wishing to be accommodating, the committee of our group acquiesced. It completely changed our group dynamic. It was no longer a safe space. One or two of the new members were openly there to 'fuck lesbians' (and yes they did use those words) although the majority were pleasant. But still. It didn't feel like a safe space to me anymore because it wasn't. I meet up privately with one or two of the friends I made there but it's not the same.

MrsBoDuke · 14/04/2016 21:24

Thank goodness a man has come alone to keep the ladies in check.

Phew!

TiggyD · 14/04/2016 21:32

No, a man is disagreeing with some people on here. Is that not allowed?

Pangurban1 · 14/04/2016 21:56

Sally, do you mean figuratively or literally? It is really some breathtaking arrogant demand to ask someone to suspend their own reality to give credence and validity to their claims.

Do you think they get some perverse kick out of intimidating, bullying and obliterating women as people? Trying to even deny them their very being. Maybe there is an element of that in these males who say they are women and you'd better bloody agree with their claims. If they say anyone can be a woman, it is trying to say you are nothing, but what we say you are.

But a woman is an female adult human. Not a male adult human. Biology is biology.

MrsBoDuke · 14/04/2016 22:26

Disagree to your hearts content!

It's just really obvious that you're a bloke by your minimising tone is all; I was simply expressing relief that we all had a man as a gatekeeper to our feelings, thoughts, musings and opinions at last.

VashtaNerada · 14/04/2016 22:42

Wow this thread escalated quickly! Lifestyle choice? Really?? And if you're going to comment on trans issues you could at least learn the terminology. Lots of posters here getting confused.
And there are many, many lesbians who would wholeheartedly disagree that the trans community are "shitting on them". Angry

LauraMipsum · 14/04/2016 22:58

I'm a lesbian.

Don't feel shitted on by the trans community. Not in the least.

Yes, there's a bunch of stupid kids on the internet who say I'm "sexually unadventurous" [thanks Zoe] and / or transphobic for not wanting to have sex with anyone with a penis, bless their little socks. They're mostly not actually trans themselves but "cis allies" fighting a brave internet fight because it's more exciting than their maths homework. They are best ignored IMO.

I've not met ONE actual trans person who espouses these tumblr-queer-special-snowflake views, not one. The trans people I know are mostly wanting to get on with their lives just like the rest of us and couldn't give a shit who I sleep with or don't.

I do know a lot of lesbians who don't know any trans people, and are worried that the tumblr-crowd are actually representative and I can understand that.

cleaty · 14/04/2016 22:59

6 months after surgery, the risk of suicide is the same as for people before they transition. So no, surgery does not statistically lower the risk of suicide.