to ask -what is the problem with UKIP

[Ikip]

that Mners seem to have? I have read through their manifesto and it seems all very reasonable to me.
I can't see why opposing 'open door' immigration, and wanting out of Europe , invokes so much hatred on MN?

It is because certain members of UKIP (who have now been suspended) have said racist and homophobic comments.

They do attract some racist people but they are not an racist party. Like you I do not see why wanting restrictions on immigration makes me racist?

Oh boy. This is going to go well!

Like you I do not see why wanting restrictions on immigration makes me racist?

no. it's just bad policy.

'no. it's just bad policy'

..for whom?

YABU

They're racist, homophobic twats.

Their members have made racist comments, they want to reduce maternity allowances and support forced abortions for Down syndrome or other disability diagnosis'

I hope you have flame retardant undies on today!

nb. I see lots of UKIP supporters around me in RL including people with high intellects and political awareness...it is not reflected on here..where dismissal as an idiot is the norm...Those people I know in RL dismiss the insults as validation of their opinion.

Expect this not to go well!!

If the party are suspending members for making racist and homophobic comments, how does that make the party racist/homophobic?

They also don't believe in sick pay or paternity pay.

Because it attracts xenophobic little englanders with a wide variety of unpleasant attitudes and gives them a forum for their views

They want to increase taxes for low earners to 31%. A flat rate for all will benefit the wealthy and fuck the poor.

Racist members
Msogynist members
Homophobic members

Manifesto focuses on a very few key issues and doesn't address everything else they would do if elected. See 'types' of people they attract above.

Farage is a hypocrit, example: German wife employed as secretary.

Have you read the rest of their policies? Did you know they plan to introduce a flat taxation rate for everyone (30% i think) so that if you are a currently a higher rate taxpayer you will be better off at the expense of everyone else who will pay more than they do now.
Have you read their policies on handing back all autonomy to employers so that there will be no national policies on maternity leave, sick pay, unfair dismissal etc?
Have you read their policies on the disabled who will be taken out of their homes/schools and put into institutions?

I actually hope this thread does not desend into abuse as it would be good to actually get the rest of their policies out there so those who support their immigration stance can actually have a think about whether they support the rest of their policies.

I don't think the op needs to be flamed, take this as an opportunity to educate someone and others who may be reading.

Having a go won't change people's perception, facts and examples will.

If the party are suspending members for making racist and homophobic comments, how does that make the party racist/homophobic?

They only suspend the ones who go publicly 'too far'.

They are 'allowed' to say small businesses shouldn't employ women of childbearing age without being suspended.

For e that's already 'to far'. It isn't for them. Scary.

I think immigration needs to be looked at HOWEVER ukip are not the party for that.

Have u read all of their manifesto? Even the bit where disabled children should be forced into special schools and kept out of main schools. Basically locked away from 'normal' people. They are a disgrace.

To quote under section six Healthcare and the NHS:”Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people withlearning disabilities.”

Their European manifesto says that they will basically only give welfare / social housing etc to:

"People whose grandparents were born locally"

By that they mean born in britain.

So for example my children who are born in Britain to 2 parents both born in britain would be categorised as "not British" because their paternal grandparents were born abroad.

Does that sound fair?

That and other carefully worded policies show their true intentions alongside members who were eventually suspended after media pressure who believe the gays created the floods and think its ok to say in a European meeting that they wanted to be involved in Womens Issues as women aren't cleaning behind the fridge properly

This is one of the reasons for me:
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85563e82-8f44-11e3-be85-00144feab7de.html

I have seen what the article describes on many occasions.
Basically they fail to do any work in Brussels so I find it immensely hypocritIcal that they come and claim all their benefits. If we get a large quantity of UKIP MEPs in the European Parliament it's going to be very damaging for putting the UK point of view forward.

Also they have a long track record of being extremely sexist, one mep left because of that during the last term.

Hilariously I was reading an article the other day about there was a possibility that UKIP would join marine le pen from the front national in a group in the EP - looks like farage won't do it because hes a bit embarrassed to be seen to be hanging out with them and some of their other friends but it seems the word is that even le pen thinks he's sexist. Imagine that, even fn thinks UKIP is sexist!

And here's a fairly comprehensive list:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Sadly I don't hold out much hope of ukip supporters reading the facts and changing their minds. We've had lots of threads like this recently and the last one I read had a woman with a disabled child planning to vote ukip.

My lesbian sister lives in Spain with her wife and supports UKIP :(

I wonder what the reality of that would actually be...shut away or actually more schemes like Remploy and independent supported housing schemes?
'Care in the community' has often been sadly lacking.
Also, how many parents of children would like to get school places for their SEN children out of mainstream...how often are their threads on here about inadequate provision in mainstream..
Not trying to goad...just musing...I know UKIP isn't the answer!!

Everything is wrong with UKIP!

Fully agree with RedBird 12, WanderingAway and Dawndonnaagin

Can anyone actually provide some decent reasons against UKIP that quote some facts and not just name calling?

A flat rate tax that also gets rid of National Insurance as a separate income tax would have to be set somewhere just below 50% in order to raise the same amount of revenue. I haven't read their proposals, but suspect they are half-baked if they are proposing a rate of 30%.

No workable proposal can result in the well-off paying less tax, that's where all the money comes from.