to ask -what is the problem with UKIP

[Ikip]

that Mners seem to have? I have read through their manifesto and it seems all very reasonable to me.
I can't see why opposing 'open door' immigration, and wanting out of Europe , invokes so much hatred on MN?

[nomorequotes]

I dislike their lack of clear policies. They say 'we will get out of Europe' without any indication of how they will deal with the subsequent lack of fair trade agreement. How will we support ourselves without the produce we bring in from Europe? How will our small businesses survive (including internet business) if they cannot sell to Europe without massive fines and fees? That is what 'leaving Europe' means and it is not attractive. No effort has been put in to explaining that.

Same with immigration, when the 80% of immigrants that are here on work/student visas leave, who will fill the jobs in the hospitals, prisons and care industries that they leave behind? Migrant workers in Britain are essential to our economic survival and growth, they cost us nothing to the point of arrival and then they work and pay tax without being eligible for benefits or pensions. If we replace those workers with workers from Britain who do take benefits and pensions, we are creating a bigger problem, not removing one.

I have yet to meet anyone who supports UKIP who is able to tell me what the benefits of cutting foreign aid are, at the same time as building fighter planes?

Their polices are empty 'we will stop building work where there is local opposition' should be followed by 'we will arrange to build in different areas by doing XYZ' but they don't they just spout a load of emotive clap-trap and it doesnt make Any sense.

That is 'the problem with UKIP'

[whatsagoodusername]

Hi IKIP - I suggest you look beyond the manifesto. The founder of UKIP was quoted in the FT the other day. He said:

“It has become corrupt, racist and obsessed with immigration and Islam,” says Prof Sked. “It hardly talks about the EU but its MEPs do travel to Brussels to get on the gravy train. I despise it now.” (link here 'www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb9a8cec-d11a-11e3-bdbb-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz31OevGmJT)

They have had several members outed as racists and homophobes over the last few years. These people are no longer with the party, but it is concerning that UKIP only removes these people after they are outed by the media. You cannot help but wonder whether these were simply the tip of the iceberg.

They are extremist in their views and their language. Do we really need extremists running the country or representing us in Europe?

[Lottiedoubtie]

Can anyone actually provide some decent reasons against UKIP that quote some facts and not just name calling?

Can you read the thread?

It's not name calling it's a list of sensible reasons to avoid UKIP.

Google for evidence if you don't believe what's written.

[ohmymimi]

Objection

[Objection]

I'm trying to read more about their flat tax policy but I've noticed that one of their policies is no tax on minimum wage.

[Objection]

Bah. excuse the huge x post. my comment posted about 10 mins after it should.

[Objection]

www.ukip.org/issues
So I found a list of policies on their site. is there another reputable resource I can use to find more? That was written by them?

[turgiday]

Their current manifesto actually has very few policies. Read what Farange actually says about his views. They are horrific.

And the few policies they have in their manifesto are awful

• Social housing only to go to people if their parents and grandparents live close by. Many people move round the country now. If you do that you will not get social housing.
  

• No building on green sites. Most of the brown field sites have already been built on in places where people want to live. In practice this means in many areas, no new house building at all. Totally ignores the fact that this will simply push house prices and rents even higher.
  

• Putting SEN children into schools just for SEN. Some parents of course want this option. But why should all SEN children be segregated and not allowed to attend a mainstream school.
  

Faranage, the UKIP leader, has made it clear in what he has said, that he thinks small businesses should not have to pay maternity leave at the current rate. The majority of people work in small businesses.

[Ikip]

Ok _I started this post not to create a bun fight, but because I wanted some hard facts.
Lots of teh outrageous claims on this thread were made by people who have since been suspended by the party.
Issues such as scrapping paternity pay I am fine with actually.It is a relatively new thing, and to be fair if the dad can't afford 2 weeks off unpaid, then why can't he take 2 weeks holiday?
Rolling out of grammar schools - great idea!
Some (not all) children with SN currently in mainstream schools would be better off in Special schools in my opinion, where their needs can be better met, or if the benefit to them of being in a ms school is outweighed by the detriment to the other children's education.That is just common sense.
To say you don't agree with UKIP because some of the members are racist and homophobic is a nonsense.You are going to find them in almost all organisations .

[turgiday]

objection - google farange and read what he has actually said.

[LtEveDallas]

All the parties are busy 'cleaning' the Internet at the moment Objection, it's hard to find the policies they have removed since the 2010 GE. Your best best is blogs/newspapers that screen-grabbed and copied at the time.

WomenAgainstUKIP on FB has some blog links that are enlightening.

[ChasedByBees]

The UK economy hugely benefits from the open markets of Europe. We also benefit from open borders in the science and research fields, being able to access a huge range of facilities across Europe.

Switzerland voted against immigration a few months ago and are facing huge ramifications in terms of not being able to access the benefits of the EU.

I really worry about a vote about membership of the EU, it seems most people who would vote don't have a clue how much it benefits us.

That's before we get onto the downright racist policies.

[turgiday]

Ikip - I havent found a claim yet on the net, that isnt actually backed up by either a manifesto promise in the old manifesto in 2010, or by what farrange himself has said. You cant dismiss what he has said he wants the party to do, he is the leader of the party, not some minor member.

And many people like me, are horrified at the idea that UKIP is actually gaining support. Their policies will harm so many people. Basically if you are a well off white man you will be fine. Anyone else will be fucked.

[gamerwidow]

they believe rape isn't possible in marriage, they're pretty shit all round on women's rights.

[deemented]

Did anyone see him on Newsnight this week?

He was saying how uncomfortable he feels when he gets on public transport and there are people who aren't speaking English on there. I wonder if he would feel as uncomfortable if he got on a bus in say, Landeilo and people were speaking Welsh?

[turgiday]

MrsDeVere - I was wondering that. There are so many of them being started. It certainly seems more than mere coincidence.

[LtEveDallas]

Oh, I found one that hasn't been erased yet southcambsukip.org.uk/ukip_mini_manifesto_201004_v01.html

Scary reading.

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

To say you don't agree with UKIP because some of the members are racist and homophobic is a nonsense.

They are structurally racist and homophobic though. Other parties have initiatives and policies that address racism, sexism etc e.g. all women shortlists, disciplinary procedures etc.

Do you not see the difference?

[Objection]

They're proritising social housing for those who have family locally.
people are always batching about that on here!

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

Are you being paid for this Ikip or are these recruitment threads administrated on a voluntary basis?

UKIP are obsessed with getting in with Mumsnet. Remember when Farage begged and pleaded to have a live chat and then was roundly routed?

[turgiday]

Objection - since there is so little social housing available, prioritising in practice means if you dont live near your parents and grandparents, you dont get social housing.

[turgiday]

And my British grandparents emigrated, so I couldnt get social housing anywhere. Apart from the fact that I moved away from my parents to get a job, like many of us have to now.