to ask -what is the problem with UKIP

[Ikip]

that Mners seem to have? I have read through their manifesto and it seems all very reasonable to me.
I can't see why opposing 'open door' immigration, and wanting out of Europe , invokes so much hatred on MN?

I see lots of UKIP supporters around me in RL including people with high intellects and political awareness.

Like, no doubt, the solicitor I know who is a UKIP candidate. However, the person concerned was incompetent and inefficient, wholly lacking in social and personal awareness, and incapable of putting together a respectable argument in favour of their party. But, on the face of it, a person of high intellect with graduate and postgraduate qualifications.

I would really like someone who supports UKIP to answer my points, they have not been asked in a negative way or shouty, just simple points that need answering.

For a party that seem so intent on getting away from the finger-pointing, you sure seem to flock to it and ignore actual politics.

Farage is a hypocrite, example: German wife employed as secretary,

Further example: Latvians employed to distribute UKIP leaflets.

Scrapping maternity allowances
Reducing maternity leave
Scrapping paternity leave
SN schools instead of inclusion
31% flat tax rate so the rich get richer and poor poorer
Congregate communities of the disabled (supported by charities and not the government)
Return to smoking in pubs
Reversal of the hunting ban
End support to multiculturalism.

All that without mentioning racism, sexism, homophobia...

Ikip
The quote I used was from their manifesto. It got 'cleaned' earlier this year. Why would you want to lock my children up?

Why would you want to lock my husband up. It's not his fault he is no longer able to work at 44.
Why would you want children to learn only about Britain's role in world history.
We are a piddly little island. An island that others laugh at. We do nothing but posture on the world stage and without Europe we would be more vulnerable than we already are.

Other parties have initiatives and policies that address racism, sexism etc e.g. all women shortlists, disciplinary procedures etc

yes that's right, that's what the Lib Dems did with Cryil Smith isn't it, whilst he was left to rampage and abuse the most vulnerable in society, everyone colluded with the authorities to cover it up.

That was a brilliant initiative wasn't it. Just like so many others too many to mention....

ukip freak me out. but then, they're meant to, i think

nomorequotes - Are you reading the thread? It is full of arguments against policies in UKIP's manifesto.

Oh no wait! You just want us to say that UKIP are brilliant?

Sorry if this has been said before, haven't got time right now to read the whole thread. It depends on definitions of racism, they may not be murderous nazis, but they certainly feel that the nation state is a natural unit (an archaic idea in 2013), and that entitlement is based on nationality. These are ideas that I am vehemently against therefore would never vote for them.

This doesn't make me against people who vote for them. What makes me want to scream at people not to vote for them is that they are being conned, they promise what they can't deliver, they pretend to support working class people whilst their policies are completely the opposite, and they prey on the desperate through reactionary ideas in order to promote their own bigoted agenda. They are anti women, anti immigrants, anti gay, basically anti progress and anti anything that doesn't promote white British men as naturally superior.

yes that's right, that's what the Lib Dems did with Cryil Smith isn't it, whilst he was left to rampage and abuse the most vulnerable in society, everyone colluded with the authorities to cover it up.

Um, you seem to be having an argument with something I haven't said.

BTW Cyril Smith was never a Lib Dem.

I suspect nobody here would defend that. We can condemn things in other parties and still think UKIP are bloody awful.

People in other political parties have said unacceptable racist things. The Anne Winterton hateful thing about the Chinese cocklepickers and Diane Abbot's offensive comment which I won't repeat.

If you need to justify voting UKIP by reference to things the Liberal Party did or failed to do in the 1960s and 70s, I fear you are simply betraying your desperation.

turgiday wtf? Have you actually read any of my posts?

here let me post them again for you;

I dislike their lack of clear policies. They say 'we will get out of Europe' without any indication of how they will deal with the subsequent lack of fair trade agreement. How will we support ourselves without the produce we bring in from Europe? How will our small businesses survive (including internet business) if they cannot sell to Europe without massive fines and fees? That is what 'leaving Europe' means and it is not attractive. No effort has been put in to explaining that.

Same with immigration, when the 80% of immigrants that are here on work/student visas leave, who will fill the jobs in the hospitals, prisons and care industries that they leave behind? Migrant workers in Britain are essential to our economic survival and growth, they cost us nothing to the point of arrival and then they work and pay tax without being eligible for benefits or pensions. If we replace those workers with workers from Britain who do take benefits and pensions, we are creating a bigger problem, not removing one.

I have yet to meet anyone who supports UKIP who is able to tell me what the benefits of cutting foreign aid are, at the same time as building fighter planes?

Their polices are empty 'we will stop building work where there is local opposition' should be followed by 'we will arrange to build in different areas by doing XYZ' but they don't they just spout a load of emotive clap-trap and it doesnt make Any sense.

That is 'the problem with UKIP'

and

I would really like someone who supports UKIP to answer my points, they have not been asked in a negative way or shouty, just simple points that need answering.

For a party that seem so intent on getting away from the finger-pointing, you sure seem to flock to it and ignore actual politics.

I will await your apology, I am very far from a UKIP supporter than you very much.

Under UKIP, my children and grandchildren would be second class citizens when it comes to things like housing, because my British parents were careless enough to be serving in the colonial service in Africa at the time I was born.

I think that the haterz of UKIP should really back off a bit and allow the UKIP-ites to let us know exactly what the policies are and (very importantly) how they are going to be implemented.

The arguments against UKIP seem to be well-researched and evaluated but I am yet to see the same applied to the arguments FOR UKIP.

Anyone? Any UKIP supporters want to come and tell us how this is all going to pan out?

I think part of the problem of a basically one issue party such as UKIP (ie Europe) is that they have not then developed many policies beyond that. This leaves their own members to 'fill the gaps' with what ever particular thing they believe in. Be it enforced abortions, God taking weather vengeance for homosexual marriage or whatever.

You get less of this in other parties because the parties are more defined and so members know what they are signing up to.

That, to me, is why I find UKIP so dangerous, I don't really know what else they stand for... And what I have heard scares me. At best, they could suddenly find themselves in charge with no idea what they are doing... At worst they could suddenly reveal a whole load more vile policies.

My personal problem with UKIP is that they carefully say 'we want controlled immigration' (reasonable), they are careful not to say 'immigrants are taking your jobs' (debatable) but the result is that others take it as a green light to indulge in unfettered xenophobic and racist behaviour. They are bloody dangerous.

But that's not a defence is it? Vote for the racists because the others also have some racists?

Anyone? Any UKIP supporters want to come and tell us how this is all going to pan out?

Now you're just being mean

nomorequotes - Okay sorry, I misunderstood you.

Some people just fear change. They'd rather stick with LibLabCon and keep the country on the path of managed decline that its been on for half a century now, than take a leap into the unknown with UKIP.

But, Tucson, it would be rather less of a leap into the unknown if UKIP could come up with some clear policies rather than issuing a very limited manifesto and doing their utmost to excise all available references to their last manifesto from the internet.