DD behaved abysmally and need to vent

[Innish22]

My DB looked after both of my DCs at the weekend and DD (11) and himself had a falling out. DB was furious when dropping them back and said outright that he won’t be looking after her again.
I don’t blame him and I’m very disappointed in her, but I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.
DD is digging in her heels and refuses to apologise, but she seemed upset this evening and I think that she is ashamed and will come around.
That’s it. I just needed to vent because it’s the last thing I needed to start the week.

The point here is that there is no evidence to suggest that there is any cause for concern. OP has given full context and explained several times that her DD admitted she said this in anger after he took away her iPad when her time limit was up. This man has been insulted by a family member using a gay trope conflating being gay with being a pervert. It was used as an insult, not an accusation - something to say to hurt someone. And yet some posters are running with it as an indication that he’s somehow ‘dodgy’. That’s where the anger and indignation of many posters, including myself is coming from. Of course no-one is beyond suspicion when it comes to the protection of our children, but to suggest that there is some truth somewhere based on what OP has said here is ridiculous.

She called her uncle a pedophile because his gay! 😡

I'm sorry that happened to your brother and it's great that you're taking it seriously - it's clear how shocked you are by it.

This sounds like a good opportunity for several lessons - the dangers of false accusations, and of lying generally, as well as controlling our temper and making a genuine, graceful apology.

Kids do throw words like pedo about, they know they're powerful without fully understanding why. If this is handled right, your DD can be a bit more informed going forward.

Good luck!

I would have a serious conversation with her about false accusations as well and how once a rumour has started it if very hard to stop.

Also- point out how her favourite uncle now never wants to look after her again. She won’t get to do all the fun things together and it’s totally her fault. Tbh I don’t think you’ll manage to completely repair the relationship but talk to your brother and make sure it doesn’t drive a wedge between you two. Keep your daughter away from him for a couple of months.

Those posters suggesting there may be something in it are exactly the reason why the DB is so upset. Context is everything and nothing the OP has said suggests this is an attempt at disclosure. It’s an 11 year old being viciously nasty to someone who cares for her. The DB must be devastated.
And 11 year olds absolutely do know this stuff. There are too many people who seem to want to infantilise a child this age. It is no excuse to say she didn’t understand. She knew the seriousness of it and that’s why she used it. I’d be extremely worried if it was my child and they behaved with such hate over being told off.
I don’t blame the DB at all for steering clear of her in the future. Even if he does agree to see her again in public their relationship will never be the same again. That’s not holding a grudge that’s just protecting yourself.
The iPad would be locked up permanently or in the bin. And refusing to apologise is not an option.

My point is she has hurled an insult based on his sexual orientation, it would be just as awful if she had said it about him liking small girls and he was straight.
My point is in her moment of frustration about her uncle not giving her more screen time she has not just randomly said
“I hate you, you never let me do anything I want, your so lame/an idiot/ I'm not coming here anymore” or “You can’t tell me what to do you’re not my Mum” she has flung an insult that is accurate in terms of a gender of a potential target, that is worse IMO because it’s more likely to be believed if overheard by someone, I would say exactly the same if he was straight and she had accused him of being inappropriate with small girls.
Her insult was targeted, not just randomly hurled, I get told I’m the worst mum in all creation, I’m pathetic because I’m the only parent who puts restrictions on things etc by my 14 year old when he runs out of time on his devices (which are in place because he too struggles to come off them) he’s never called me a paedo or made an comment remotely similar…

You've made absolutely no mention of any consequences for her nasty behaviour?

She could ruin his life saying things like that and you think a conversation after school is enough? I hope he does cause friction in the family. He needs to stay far away.

Right so if I falsely accuse you of molesting children because I’m angry, what I’m really doing is bringing awareness to female child sex abusers and you should graciously accept it.

Yeah she shouldn't have said it, but she is eleven!! I personally would treat this as a learning opportunity and make her apologise.

My secondary age kids joke about this kind of thing as well as other inappropriate things. Of course we always pick them up on it and school have regular assemblies, but its also the type of thing they say in the play ground and with their mstes. (For those that kids never have a miss step, i would suggest you are somewhat niaive).

So I think keep in perspective. She's eleven! I seriously doubt she understood the nuance...

I pretty shocked that your daughter is 11 and would come out with something as sexually sophisticated as this. I have a 11 year old and she is aware of homosexuality but she isn't aware of paedophiles (of course I have warned her about strangers and inappropriate touching etc). I can't imagine her saying something like this to anyone, let alone to an uncle. Why is she so worldly?

I am sure this is absolutely the right way forward.
You are acknowledging why your brother has reacted so strongly whilst at the same time recognising that your DD's behaviour is that of a child ... that she has acted on the spur of the moment without the adult insights that would help her to understand the ramifications of what she has said.
I hope you are able to find the words to explain this to her in an age appropriate way.

What would you like OP to do ? She said she’s going to deal with it. I would imagine devices will be taken away and she’ll be grounded, but the most important thing here is not the punishment, it’s actually the conversation OP is going to have with her, to find out where this language came from and to make sure that she understands the viciousness and potentially very serious consequences of her words. It’s an opportunity to reinforce the fact that gay does not mean pervert and that while you should always speak up if you have concerns, these words are not to be thrown around carelessly and without reason, or used in anger or to insult.

I suspect that in addition to any punishment OP metes out, her real punishment is about to hit her with full force because her fun uncle now wants nothing to do with her and hopefully in future will refuse to be around her without another adult present.

Some kids do say stuff like this, because they know it holds power.

when my DB was a lorry driver a while ago he was lost, and turned around in a residential street. He parked there for a few mins to look at the delivery address and a girl of about 9 told her father my brother had tried to get her into his cab. Thank god he had a camera in the cab that proved he had done nothing at all wrong, but it has left a lasting wariness of children and he doesn’t particularly like them tbh. I can’t blame him for steering clear of her, this could ruin his life.

The words being used by grown (presumably) women on this thread are alarming.
‘Vile’
’horrible’
’unforgiveable’
’disgusting’
’nasty’
’committed a hate crime’
’report it to her school’

Jesus, it’s a pile-on. At 11 she will understand the word but will also have limited life experience with what the fallout of using it is. She’s possibly deeply ashamed that she’s used it and that’s resulting in her stubbornness to apologise.
I called my 11 years older (and kind and lovely) brother a cunt when I was 8, i used it toward him thinking it was like the word ‘bucko’ I’d heard on TV. I’d had heard the word cunt at school and had no real world experience of what it meant or the seriousness of using it.
I felt deeply, deeply ashamed afterwards and remember being very quiet as he sat me down and asked why I’d used it and the implications of using adult language. I couldn’t articulate the shame at the time and that’s what led to my silence.
As the adults OP, you and your brother have the chance to teach her a significant life lesson here. Upset and angry as you rightly are, I would suggest you model the behaviour you want her to learn and be kind as you teach her about the importance and impact of words - and don’t forget her brain is still far from developed in doing so. This could also be an opportunity to show her what forgiveness looks like, something that may stand her in good stead as she goes through life, and ultimately shape her into a better adult.

I don't think anyone is saying "you must teach her that she can't insult or upset or accuse a gay person of anything". They are saying that using targeted slurs to insult someone from a discriminated group is objectively worse than generally shouting at someone because they have upset you. Doing this to a loved one is even more hurtful because it suggests that "being gay" is what she thinks about him rather than "being her beloved fun uncle" and that she associates "being gay" with "being a paedophile". Within his own family that would be incredibly upsetting.
Yes 11 year olds can say and do stupid things. But I can imagine that it would be incredibly difficult for him to recover the relationship they previously had, even if he wasn't somone to hold long grudges.

Is that really what you took from my post?

Either my English skills are way off (sorry, second language) or your reading comprehension is.

Nowhere have I suggested that what op's child did was right.

But I was concerned that some posters were acting like op's daughter was heinous, only because she said it about a gay man. And that she should be punished harshly and taught to never accuse a gay man of this crime.

I feel this is wrong. Firstly because this is a child. They use powerful words without understanding their full effect and need to be guided in their correct usage. And secondly because attutudes like 'You must never accuse a gay man of being a pedo or you are a homophobe' are exactly the ones that lead to baby Preston's abuse and death.

Because its playground banter. Yes its weird, but it is pretty standard.

I mean, there was also a bit of craze of primary age kids making sex noises for a while...i mean god knows where they got that from, but my kids did it other kids did it and it was a thing for some kids all over the country. Kids learn this shit, and probably even more so than in our day with social media. They dont know what it means or they know what it means but not really know.

(yes, yes, reader not yours, i know your kids would never do something so awful I know because you've parented so well!).

Yes, absolutely she is old enough to have that conversation once things are calmer, but what I can't understand is the weight of history your post (and several others) have put on the shoulders of an eleven year old girl in 2026! She likely knows a dictionary definition of 'paedo' and that it is something awful to be, she almost certainly doesn't know about the tragic history of the gay community and the tropes and slurs that have plagued them. And she probably doesn't fully understand what an accusation can do to someone. Again, that is something she needs to have clearly explained to her so she can learn from this. I'm not advocating a free pass. But in telling all the family what she said and how awful it all was (which the OP seems to believe he will do), and refusing point blank to look after her again, he is not teaching his niece anything except to match spite with spite. At eleven your sense of self and your social positions feel so huge. I'm not saying she shouldn't face any consequences at all, but leaping to the worst case and "what if" feels disproportionate given the circumstances.

From what the OP posted, they were arguing about something and her iPad was taken away or some such and she lashed out. If my eleven year old niece called me a "bitch" or "whore" or any of the myriad words that carry awful, historical weight and connotations for women, I wouldn't be refusing to look after her again and letting her stew in the heft of my adult fury. I'm very much a "guidance over punishment" parent/caregiver, especially the first time an issue comes up. So yes, in my opinion, I think he sounds like a bit of a knob.

I am wryly amused by the posters falling over themselves to post the most pithy indignant replies.

OK, let’s give this some more context. If you are a male professional who works with children, for example school, social work, care home, hospital you will definitely get called a pedo by those children, as an insult, daily. You are given training support and your own experience to help you deal with this. (Guess who has worked in or adjacent to all of those professions, albeit i am female )

If you dont work with children you may never come across this in which case your first reaction may well be “Oh that’s awful!” So it’s probably worth listening to those people who know that the best way to deal with this is to take the wind of it, don't make it into a massive deal , and don’t damn the poor kid for it.

She’s 11, she said something stupid , and hurtful , have a chat with her about it, and why it’s hurt your brothers feelings . It would be nice if she does say sorry because she hurt his feelings, you can explain to him that she’s 11 and this is the current insult of the day, and you’ve explained to her why it’s hurtful , and then hopefully he can be a grown up, accept her apology and move on.

So what does this have to do with Preston Davey, sorry? I comprehended your post as it was written.

I don’t think the comments would have been any different had they been directed at a straight man. It’s a dangerous thing to say to anyone, but it’s particularly disturbing in this case, simply because it is a homophobic trope and these things easily grow legs.

No-one here has said anything even vaguely suggestive of never accusing someone who is gay of such crimes, but the fact is that, as a gay man, an unfounded accusation is more likely to stick, because like it or not, some people still conflate gay with pervert. The key here is that the accusations need to be based on fact, and just as homosexuality should never be a reason not to report suspicions, neither should it be a reason for increased suspicion.

This thread is a good example of the exact reasons that the words DD used can be so damaging. The reactions from some posters show an undercurrent of ‘no smoke without fire’ even though OP has explained the context multiple times and there isn’t a shred of evidence of any wrong doing on DB’s part. The words being uttered by a child are enough.

Same here. And frankly the fact that that poor child has been brought up in response to what OP has posted leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

You say that she may not have understood the gravity of what she said, I'm not so sure.

She may not have understood the nuts and bolts of it but she will, from school, know that it is a very serious thing to say and that, of course, is why she said it instead of calling him a fucker or twat.

She knows men are scared of it. What if she had said that claim to him when they were in a shop or a doctor's waiting room.

She may not know what it is like to be accused of something and to have no-one believe you but she needs to know before she becomes a girl who lies and makes false claims.

What would you do if it is your husband, dad, or her teacher next. She only needs to say it to someone who believes her and an innocent man is ruined.

The remedy for that is in your hands.

Tell her dad, her sibling, her gran, her best friend something horrible and totally untrue about her. Let her feel the full weight , upset and frustration of trying to tell them that it is untrue.

That might sound harsh. It is but sometimes, only nasty medicine will do the trick and I have a feeling that all the explanations in the world won't make a jot of difference to this girl.

By the way, I sincerely hope that her ipad is in the bin.

Fucking hell.
You’re advocating making up a falsehood about a child and spreading it?? To ‘make her feel the weight of it?’

Some of you on here need to give your head a wobble.

OP, if I was you, I’d be tiring of hearing total strangers not only use some pretty awful terms about my child, but also calling for public shaming. I’d probably be asking to have this thread taken down now.

WTF is wrong with some of you??

@Innish22 this is a zero tolerance issue and it does hint at deeper behavioural issues with your DD.
Your DB is absolutely entitled to hold a grudge and in his shoes I wouldn't look after her again either.
An 11 year old fully understands a screen time limit. To retaliate with abuse of this nature goes back to my first point. Waiting for her to be sorry is giving totally the wrong message. She's 100% out of order and no excuses.
She's never get her devices back in my house. Brick phone only if essential.