DD behaved abysmally and need to vent

[Innish22]

My DB looked after both of my DCs at the weekend and DD (11) and himself had a falling out. DB was furious when dropping them back and said outright that he won’t be looking after her again.
I don’t blame him and I’m very disappointed in her, but I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.
DD is digging in her heels and refuses to apologise, but she seemed upset this evening and I think that she is ashamed and will come around.
That’s it. I just needed to vent because it’s the last thing I needed to start the week.

If that had been in your OP, I think people wouldn’t have called him pathetic.

I don’t blame him for not wanting to look after her again.

It’s interesting that the context has been given and people are assuming he may be dodgy.

Assuming he isn’t for one moment. THAT is why it was a horrific thing to say.

I guess he isn’t going to be the ‘fun uncle’ for any of the kids anymore - it would be crazy to agree to spend time with any children given how easy doubts are planted.

The girl is 11, not 5, and should know the difference between teasing and levelling a vile accusation.

Sounds like you haven’t read the thread.

I babysat for a child one summer, I found him to be of a similar ilk of your daughter, I was worried he would say something like this and it could have serious reputations on my life.

one wrong thing said and there is nothing to prove innocence.

i stopped the babysitting all together, it was safer. I’d never do anything to a child. Not easy to prove though

id tell your brother you understand, you understan him not having her again. Ask if he would like to help in what you can say to her to explain the impact of what she has said. I’d not talk at all about rebuilding any type of relationship at the miment

how is she going to feel having severed this relationship with the fun uncle

also does she understand that if she has done something wrong - she needs to take responsibility for her actions, not lash out and attack someone else unjustifiably with a lie

Oh calm down everybody, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion, it sounds like your DB and DD usually have a fun relationship more akin to to bother and sister than parent figure and now DD is getting older leaving him ‘in charge’ is resulting in pushing boundaries, knowing 11 year olds I can bet this insult came after a row about your DB asking DD to do something.

11 year olds calling people “pedo” is just the insult du jour, there is no need to give it weight or be scandalised , giving a word magic powers is a very bad idea.

I actually do think it’s a bit pathetic that a grown man has taken this so badly.

This. The posters suggesting that OP needs to investigate further are the ones insisting that no context has been given and more information is needed when in actual fact OP has been fairly specific about the circumstances. It was a comment made in anger after an argument about an iPad.

DD deliberately said something vile and designed to hurt - very probably without fully realising the implications given her age, but 11 is old enough for a parent to make sure she understands in an age appropriate way, the nature of what she’s saying and the potential repercussions if she repeats something like this elsewhere.

Yeah what a loser right? He should just chuckle along while she accuses him of sexually molesting his friend's child that he regularly babysits. It's all just bantz.

Also just because someone takes kids out to have fun and has a good relationship with them does not mean their relationship is 'like brother and sister'. Clearly he has behavioural standards which, when enforced, resulted in this charming young lady accusing him of being a sex offender.

I wouldn't worry about 'where she got if from' & concentrate on whether she understood what she said, ask her what she meant etc.

I doubt she fully understand how serious & offensive that was. Does she understand what a paedophile is & the importance of recognizing & speaking up over any uncomfortable behaviour however small, and the seriousness of those allegations, also the consequences of telling a huge lie.

I don't think any male would want to be alone around a child that had said something like that, even after an apology.

Whilst this isn't great and I can see why your brother would be very angry about this, I do think your daughter is only 11 years old. If I was in your position, I would apologise straightforwardly to your brother but stay connected to your daughter and help her to work through this herself. Help her to understand that throwing around serious accusations might have serious consequences without going in to too many details about paedophilia (although at 11, she is old enough for a straightforward talk about this).

I do get that it is hard for you and in families these things can fester on but your first duty of care is to your daughter, not to your brother however justifiable angry/upset/scared he might be. She is still a child.

She only needed to have made the silly remark in front of a teacher etc & that would have been enough to trigger a safeguarding referal.

It was a very serious allegation which she wouldn't have understand. OP does need to make that very clear that it is unacceptable & the reasons why.

No male would want to be alone around a child who has said that.

I agree with this!

I don't know your son.
But if I had a quid for each time a parent misjudged their child's behaviour at school, and each time I'd heard the word paedo at school- and this is a 'nice middle class area where lots of kids go to grammar schools'- I'd be a trillionaire.

Yeah i’m not surprised DB won’t look after her again. At least definitely not for a long time.

Might he at least still spend time with your other DC?

As well as speaking to her and taking away ipad, I would tbh be asking her where she learns this stuff so you can get to the source, and also I would also be looking at other punishments or continue to confiscate electronics or access to the internet

What she said is actually a homophobic trope and at the age of eleven if she has used the word as a slur, along with ‘you like little boys’ then she’s old enough for an age appropriate explanation of exactly what those words mean, how dangerous they are and the repercussions they can have. In the past, gay man have been hounded out of their homes, beaten and in some instances killed after careless, throwaway comments like this. He’s a gay man. His friends trust him with their children. One slur like this that sticks and all of that is in ruins, along with the rest of his life. And you think he’s the knob ?

I think this thread shows how things like baby Preston Davey happen.

Just because of the absolute knee jerk insistence that no gay man should ever be accused of such a thing.

Adult sexual orientation does not make any man more or less likely to be a sexual offender against children.

And yet, despite that fact, I think this thread would have gone very differently if op's brother was not gay. Not that anyone would insist he was one, but I don't think the 11 year old girl would be as despised for saying the word.

Cool, cool. Just relax. Not like an insult like this could ruin people‘s reputation, livelihood and other things.

maybe educate yourself a bit and read this study in order to understand the severity of what OPs daughter has done

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09658211.2023.2284652

Nothing to do with him being gay or not imo. The child has admitted she said it in anger, and not because there is any substance to the accusations.

We need to make sure the child is fully aware and understood what they said.

That’s because what she said is a homophobic trope. Do you not understand that ? I certainly don’t believe that no gay man should ever be accused of CSA if the accusation can be evidenced, but in this case it’s baseless, OP has given full context and still the innuendo continues - which is putting the emphasis in the wrong place. OP’s DB has done nothing wrong and the child needs to be educated in an age appropriate way so that she understands the seriousness of her words.

I wouldn’t say I live in a nice middle class area and it’s not the norm for children here to go to grammar school, he’s has to travel an hour each way to get there.
I worked in his primary school up until 2 years ago and still have many good friends there, I absolutely would have heard about it if my child was calling people it.
I could pick the immature ones who think it’s a laugh to disrupt the class who I could definitely picture thinking it’s a hilarious thing to say.
As soon as my sons group finished lunch, they would head to the football field, not hanging around trading insults
Yelling paedo at the age of 11 is really immature, thankfully I’ve never been given reason to doubt my son.
In my case it’s definitely not me going ‘oh my child would never do that he is so delightful’, He called his brother a fucking idiot this morning, he knows how to fling an insult however when I used to hear “you’re gay” being bandied around as insult when I worked in a school, I made sure very quickly that my child understood what it meant in a child appropriate way so he knew why it’s not something to be said as an insult even though he never said it himself.
The OP daughter won’t have had the full idea of the implications of her saying it, however she has said something that could have serious consequences all over not getting more iPad time.
Having a strop over iPad time is one thing saying your uncle loves small boys or however she framed it, I wouldn’t expect at 11 when she is either first year secondary or last year of primary.

I agree.

But I believe the majority of the condemnation comes from the fact op's brother is gay.

I think if he was straight, most responses would be along the lines of 'She was wrong to say that. You should explain that if she ever has any real concerns that she should absolutely voice them, but that saying that for no reason can be very damaging.'

Of which there has been some.

But I don't think there would be as much anger and ones along the lines of 'How dare she?! Child is homophobic. I wouldn't blame the adult for never liking her again because of that one word'.

Which suggests that it is far more beyond the line, just because op's brother is gay.

I just think that is a dangerous knee jerk to have, when a gay man is just as likely/unlikely (per capita) as a straight man to be a pedophile.

Would she have said about him loving small boys if he wasn’t gay though?!
OP hasn’t said how she framed it exactly.

She already admitted that she said it because she was angry at him for taking the iPad away after her limit was up. I’m glad that he did because that’s the biggest pain point we have with her recently, so I will absolutely focus on her behaviour around electronics if it brings out comments like this.

Of course I understand why my DB is angry. He has been beaten up before and I wouldn’t say that he is easily offended or sensitive. But I absolutely understand why this would have hit a nerve.

I’ll have a proper conversation with her after school. I don’t think she fully understands the gravity of what she said. And that’s not me making excuses but hoping.

Would it have been different if she'd said 'He loves little girls'? about a straight man?

I don't disagree that op needs to sit down with her daughter and explain why she needs to only say that if something happens/she witnesses sonething or feels unsafe.

I would just be concerned if the child was the daughter of some of the posters, that their anger and indignation that she ever say that about a gay man could lead to dangerous situations.

There have been cases where gay offenders have committed offences involving little girls and vice versa for straight men with little boys.

The point is that it's a far more dangerous slur to cast because the OPs brother is gay. Men get beaten up judt for being gay every day, add in the world "pedophile " and thing can get bad very quickly.

And this is about casting a slur - this is not a child who was raising a genuine concern about her uncle to another adult. That would be a totally different matter.

But you cannot see why sending a message to a child that 'You must never say this about a gay man' rather than 'You must never say this about anyone unless something has happened or you feel unsafe' could be dangerous? Especially if delievred with anger about her being homophobic.

And how this could lead to a child keeping quiet in the future, even as an adult, if she witnesses something? Out of fear?