Cleaner shamed us for house - not sure how to feel

[tokajlover]

We have had a cleaner for coming up to 4 years now and she’s brilliant, no complains from us whatsoever.

The reason we have a cleaner is because, like most people who do, we find it makes life much easier with a young child, and both my DH and I working a substantial distance from home, about an hour to an hour and a half’s commute a few times a week plus starting this year, school drop offs and pick ups etc. Our lives are chaotic but nothing out of the ordinary for young-ish professionals with a young child, except maybe the substantial commutes. Having a cleaner is definitely a God send!

Apparently, however, today she pulled my husband aside as he was WFH and told him that we need to do better, because she needs to do a “hard factory reset” every time she comes over.

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday! But we don’t leave disgusting messes, food, we don’t have bugs etc (feel ashamed to even have to say this!), we aren’t hoarders, and our house is just a normally messier than we’d like it to be but not disgusting by any means 3 bed. The best way to put this would be, I guess, if announced guests had popped up today I would not have thought it the best time and would have said “sorry for the mess” but I wouldn’t have been excessively worried or scrambling about to get the place ready, as I wouldn’t have thought there was anything particularly bad about it just not “visitor-ready” and messy.

I feel so embarrassed now though and mum guilt has kicked in - I keep thinking that there’s plenty of full time working parents who don’t have a cleaner so what am I doing wrong.

She only does 2 hours a week but she did start out doing 3, with the idea initially being that she would do the general clean in 2 hours and do one deep-cleaning thing each time, she is the one who asked for fewer hours. We pay above the average rate which is not me congratulating ourselves by any means and we never minded as she does do an excellent job, just to clarify we are not under-paying her or anything like that!

I guess I just feel a bit ashamed and don’t know if she had a point or was this weird? Presumably people have cleaners to clean and sometimes the house is not in top shape when your cleaner arrives, but I thought that was normal? As I said we never leave messes for her to deal with later on purpose or any disgusting things, but part of me can’t help but feel extremely ashamed and bad!

You need to align expectations. Either she is happy to tidy and you’re happy to pay the extra or not. Plenty of cleaners are happy to tidy.

I would assume she’s worried that there isn’t much cleaning to be shown at the end of the 2hrs as she’s spent the whole time tidying. Or worrying that you’re expecting her to work harder than is reasonable in the time she’s there to get it done

This. The two hours she has is to get the house clean. There is no room for tidying your mess beforehand.

Ps - if it makes you feel better, our cleaners genuinely thought one of their other customers had been burgled once the house was so messy - they phoned the customer in a panic when they arrived at the house. Turns out no, they’d just been in a rush that morning while getting ready to go away for the weekend 🤣

If you can't be arsed to find a new cleaner I'd agree another hour and see if she stops being a moaner.

Two hours doesn't sound much for a three bed if you want it to be properly clean tbh, even if it was showhome tidy when she starts.

Couple of things here.
You cannot do more cleaning in less hours - she’s gently reminding you that she’s reduced her hours but in order to get the place clean she has to do more.

She also probably didn’t say ‘you need to do better’ - your husband is paraphrasing / recalling as he received it.

I can imagine that when you say it was more messy than usual as we hosted it’s not going to be a few extra crumbs on the floor. Hard reset was probably the most political she could have phrased a big clean.

I have a 3 bed too, and my cleaner takes 3.5h every week but I, like you need it. You’re not giving her enough time.

At the end she said she'd tried her best but… and gestured to a pile of stuff with a disgusted look.😂

I find it hilarious when people make being tidy a moral triumph!

You need to “tidy” up so she can actually CLEAN and do her job. You’re not actually leaving clothes and detritus all over the place surely? We always clear the decks for our cleaner. She’s a cleaner not your mum.

she’s gently reminding you that she’s reduced her hours

Which is fair enough if OP reduced them, but, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the cleaner reduced them and is now asking OP to live differently to accommodate her shorter visit?

You’ve said yourself that your house was messy after hosting and then going away.

It sounds like your house is often too messy for her to be able to clean effectively in the time she has. Cleaners are there to clean, not tidy, unless already agreed. It’s not just about not leaving messes and disgusting things, as stated in your OP.

Of course I will! I was never not going to talk about it but judging by the replies here there clearly isn’t a consensus on whether it’s expected to tidy fully or not and seems to be arrangement-dependent so just was looking for some more opinions!

I was never going to substitute talking to her with a Mumsnet post!

But surely OP would have to accept that? If my cleaner said she has a shorter timeframe for me I’d know it wouldn’t work unless I gave her less to do, not more.

I don’t know why she isn’t answering that as many of us have suggested. It sounds like she would rather believe her husband that the cleaner was rude. Because men are usually so honest, reliable and good at listening 😂

No need to feel guilty! Holding down a demanding job while being a mum to a young child is not easy! I think you or your husband need to have a word with the cleaner to ask her to clarify her expectations, but it may simply be that you are not well matched. It may be that you are happy with, "As long as the house looks better than it did two hours ago, that's fine" whereas your cleaner only gets a sense of job satisfaction if she leaves the house pristine. If that's the case, it's probably best to look for a different cleaner.

I’ve always had cleaners.

many over the years. And Always tidy before they come. How can they clean if it’s not tidy. They are cleaners. Not tidyers!

Are the surfaces cluttered? If so, she can't clean properly or has to spend more time tidying and less time actually cleaning.

We have a weekly cleaner and it's a great incentive to keep on top of tidying during the week so that the evening before/morning of the clean is not too manic/stressful.

We have a 3 bed. Our cleaner does 2.5 hours cleaning and 30 mins ironing. She is so good, we want to keep her happy!

I don’t disagree which is why I initially asked for 3 hours, and am very happy to not expect any tidying/do it before she starts cleaning so ahe can focus exclusively on that, but saying she is not my slave is a bit dramatic!

As PPs said, whether this arrangement works for her anymore or not she is being paid for her time, not for the quality of cleaning and I have never made her (nor could/would I!) do extra work for free if she hadn’t managed to clean everything in time! she will charge us for how long she normally takes, and we pay accordingly, we don’t expect free labour and we were the ones offering more hours and therefore money to begin with, so I do not disagree with you that it is not enough but I do resent the notion I would expect her to slave away for us when she’s paid for her actual hours (that she wanted!)

That's your arrangement, but others on this thread have said that their cleaners do also do some tidying. The key thing is to be clear about expectations from the outset, and realistic about how many hours will be needed.

Well I'm afraid that's the point at which I'd be giving notice. I employ people to make my life easier and if they can't offer the hours needed for the job - which in this case involves an OP who lives as she lives - then presumably all parties will be happy to part company,

She can't adjust her hours below what worked then expect the employer to adjust the nature and scale of the job to fit, That's cart before horse.

I would get another cleaner, you pay her to clean because you can't do it all yourselves. If she can't do everything in the time she has that's a discussion. To tell your Dh you need to do better is more than rude.

i used to clean. There was this absolutely massive house I used to have 3 hours to do a deep clean. I spent half of it tidying as it was a shithole.

just stuff everywhere - not dirty, just mess. Mabey she means that?

The cleaner is open and honest - she sees your family and herself on the same team and is trying to make things better for everybody. She wasn’t trying to shame you and if she didn’t like you/ the job at your house she would just say goodbye.

Two hours a week is very little for most houses. I have a friend who cleans and she never agrees to less than three hours a week. Speak to her and see what is she suggesting. May be she’d like to come twice a week. If she’s got useful feedback or new hours suggestion - try a new agreement.

There appears to be a disconnect here, and you’re understandably very defensive.

so either she’s a shit cleaner and your house isn’t very messy, or it is by most people’s standards ns she’s got a point. None of us can guess which it is. But you know.

so if you’re expecting her to tidy, then I’d ask her to do an extra hour. If your house is tidy and she can do it in the time but is shit, fire her,

I will have a conversation with her of course! Again, this thread is not a substitute for that? I just wanted more opinions about other people’s arrangements!

as to why I am “not answering” I posted this thread less than 2 hours ago and have been doing dinner and bedtime since. It’s not like I disappeared, I have a 4-year old and it’s been peak bedtime hours lol!

I agree with you about all of that, but I also think the reduction in hours would have been a two way conversation. So why on earth OP didn’t flag it wasn’t enough, or register she would need to tidy beforehand is what I am questioning here. OP would have had to agree to this, it wasn’t just the cleaner announcing ‘I am doing this in 2h now!’