Cleaner shamed us for house - not sure how to feel

[tokajlover]

We have had a cleaner for coming up to 4 years now and she’s brilliant, no complains from us whatsoever.

The reason we have a cleaner is because, like most people who do, we find it makes life much easier with a young child, and both my DH and I working a substantial distance from home, about an hour to an hour and a half’s commute a few times a week plus starting this year, school drop offs and pick ups etc. Our lives are chaotic but nothing out of the ordinary for young-ish professionals with a young child, except maybe the substantial commutes. Having a cleaner is definitely a God send!

Apparently, however, today she pulled my husband aside as he was WFH and told him that we need to do better, because she needs to do a “hard factory reset” every time she comes over.

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday! But we don’t leave disgusting messes, food, we don’t have bugs etc (feel ashamed to even have to say this!), we aren’t hoarders, and our house is just a normally messier than we’d like it to be but not disgusting by any means 3 bed. The best way to put this would be, I guess, if announced guests had popped up today I would not have thought it the best time and would have said “sorry for the mess” but I wouldn’t have been excessively worried or scrambling about to get the place ready, as I wouldn’t have thought there was anything particularly bad about it just not “visitor-ready” and messy.

I feel so embarrassed now though and mum guilt has kicked in - I keep thinking that there’s plenty of full time working parents who don’t have a cleaner so what am I doing wrong.

She only does 2 hours a week but she did start out doing 3, with the idea initially being that she would do the general clean in 2 hours and do one deep-cleaning thing each time, she is the one who asked for fewer hours. We pay above the average rate which is not me congratulating ourselves by any means and we never minded as she does do an excellent job, just to clarify we are not under-paying her or anything like that!

I guess I just feel a bit ashamed and don’t know if she had a point or was this weird? Presumably people have cleaners to clean and sometimes the house is not in top shape when your cleaner arrives, but I thought that was normal? As I said we never leave messes for her to deal with later on purpose or any disgusting things, but part of me can’t help but feel extremely ashamed and bad!

I’ve no idea I can’t afford one haha. But I suppose I would (if I were the cleaner) expect to be able to hoover without having to move shoes first. Especially if I had agreed a list of jobs within a time frame because inevitably that eats into the time and I would have to work faster or longer (even 5 minutes working over would add up to a lot of working for free if you had 3-4 clients a day. The desk I should imagine is really normal to have things on and either clean around or under. Same as your kitchen, you’re obviously not going to put your kettle away for the cleaner coming. I suppose only you know if you’re actually expecting too much. Judging by a lot of the threads on here though not many of these women are working for the £15-£25 an hour they expect the cleaner to work for so a little respect when they’re talking about them would be nice. When you clean your own house you work like a dog for 2 hours and then vow never go let it get that messy / unclean again because you’re knackered. These people have to think about the physical toll their job takes on their body. No one can work like that for many hours a day without it having an impact on their health.

Cleaners are there to clean, not tidy. Maybe best to find a cleaner who does tidying as well.

I have never seen the point of a cleaner who expects a spotless place before they arrive but then I have always paid for more hours for a housekeeper type tidy and clean.

To be honest I think the cleaner could have been more tactful e.g. say that you need to book longer cleans (particularly if she is the one who asked for fewer hours). Her comment seems inappropriate.

Don’t feel guilty for doing things that make your life easier. DH and I have a cleaner. We live in a flat with no kids, I definitely have time to clean but he doesn’t and he doesn’t want me to pick up all of the slack so we have one. It makes life a lot easier!

Hi I'm a cleaner, just wanted to add my perspective (obviously not speaking for all cleaners!)

Mess/clutter really needs to be cleared/put away before I clean.

I dont care if its just shoved in a washing basket or whatever but if surfaces/floors are not accessible it takes time before i can even start what I'm supposed to be doing.
When a customer asks for the dusting to be done throughout (standard) but I have to clear everything & put it all back it takes bloody ages. I dont mean normal things like a remote, photo frames, coasters etc but a chest of drawers with 100s of lotions, nail polishes, make up covering the entire surface is not ok.

Also, if your kitchen table is covered in dirty bibs, random hair bands, receipts, bills/post & the odd dud battery I am not going to be putting that all away (& often wouldnt know where you want it kept!)

A great solution is to get yourself some baskets. Go round each room quickly the night before/or morning of & chuck anything thats not in its right place in there.
You can then put it away later at your convience in a lovely sparkling home!

I think that’s the crux of it to be honest. It makes more sense to find someone that is happy to do both. It’s hard to tidy someone else’s stuff up, where does it get tidied to? Unless there’s a clear and obvious spot for it. And making sure you’re in agreement about what they clean.

The thing is that cleaners don't generally tidy. How would they know where to put things away?

I tidy before my cleaner comes which because my house sounds similar to yours generally takes an hour of 2 the night before. When the cleaner arrives there should be nothing at all on the floor or any surface unless it's meant to be there.

It sounds like you need to talk calmly to your cleaner (reliable ones are hard to find so I wouldn't want to change) about what she expects / time needed / what you need. It might be you could come up with a compromise such as a basket where anything left out is put and more time.

Same, I've had my cleaner for nearly ten years and she tidies as well as cleans. She also does a couple of laundry loads. There's nothing inherently better in cleaning vs tidying, it's similar kind of work and I don't understand why you'd be willing to do one and not the other. But if she's unwilling to tidy then she'd better clean offices than family homes.

I think the norm with cleaners is that everything should be tidy and they should just be cleaning, if they are having to move clutter and put stuff away that's not usually ok unless you have an agreement that is part of their service. But if it is 2h is definitely not enough time to clean. How big is your house? I lived in a 2 bed apartment once and tje cleaner needed 3h to do that- if they are properly cleaning everywhere it can't just be done in two mins.

I think she’s trying to tell you diplomatically that it’s too untidy to clean effectively e.g. can’t hoover the lounge if toys are all over the floor, can’t wipe the kitchen surfaces if there are piles of post, kids reading books, artwork from nursery, shopping to put away etc. etc. Up to you whether you want to tidy yourself or ask her if she’ll do an extra hour to sort it and accept she may put things in different places to you. FWIW 2 hours is nothing, it’s what I’d expect for a small flat. For a family house 3-5 hours would be more like it depending on size and number of bathrooms.

Yeah she'd be sacked.
Rude as fuck and bizarre she'd tell your husband you 'need to do better'?!

She could use professional language and communication skills by explaining to both of you that she only has time for xyz tasks in the 2 hours. And if you're happy with the clean level and she just cleans for two hours then what's the issue?

She's being paid to clean and so what if it's never sparkling because of the baseline levels of dirt, you haven't complained. I'm not saying your house is dirty btw. I'm just saying that if it is imperfect it's you living in it not her so it's none of her business.

I'm not employing a cleaner who grades me as 'could do better'.

Exactly this!

Was there unflushed poo in the loo? Was there pee on the floor? Was there vomit anywhere? If not, she needs to wind her neck in - and perhaps reinstate the third hour she dropped.

I think I'd actually raise it that way with her: are you thinking you might be able to give us that third hour again as I hear from DH you feel you can't get it done in the two hours? That's fine with us ..."

Maybe she is angling for more hours? I would ask her whether she can take on more hours as you can't facilitate the house being cleaner given your juggle. If she refuses or says you have to do it o would get a new one.

Oh & dont feel bad for having a cleaner.... i wouldnt have my job & be able to pay my bills without people like you needing/wanting my services.

I have literally considered getting a cleaner myself because I cannot be arsed with more cleaning when I get home!! 🤣

Thing is cleaning a 3 bed house in 2 hrs is some going,no time to waste tidying up. Shes probably spent most of her time tidying up and picking up after you and didn't get time to do any proper cleaning.
Don't blame her for saying something, next post you make will be complaining house isn't cleaned properly! That's because she's wading through the rubbish you've left about. It must have been bad enough for her to say something

Isn't the definition of a cleaner someone who cleans, not to tidy up after a family who live in a messy house?

I know exactly what your cleaner means. I use to clean a house that required a total reset weekly and it was a total nightmare and I was glad to give them notice! You never know OP she might be relieved if you give her notice.

Do you not do a pre cleaner tidy? Maybe it’s just our cleaner but we essentially hide/tidy the mess away and she can come in and clean. If we leave stuff on the sides or on the floor she cleans around them ie a mug or a pair of shoes or whatever

I had a cleaner once and I was at pains to tell her (as I always do) that I knew the house was a bit cluttered, and she shouldn't worry about or spend time on trying to clean/tidy difficult areas (like moving around piles of papers etc), but just focus on cleaning the floors, the bathroom and the kitchen surfaces.
At the end she said she'd tried her best but… and gestured to a pile of stuff with a disgusted look.
She was only ever going to be doing one clean anyway as my regular cleaner was away at short notice, but I wouldn't have asked her back if I had been looking for someone new. I thought it was very unprofessional.
It's not up to someone to pass comment on your house unless it affects their ability to do their job, and I was very careful to explain to her how to deal with the bit of clutter in my house.

Agree. It’s taken me 2 hours to hoover through our modest house today, mop the kitchen floor and clean two bathrooms (one literally a small toilet and sink) I know a cleaner is likely a bit quicker but 2 hours is gone in no time. Anyone that says they can do it an hour is either lying, doesn’t have standards as high as a cleaner or just wants to be tight. Otherwise everyone would just do their own cleaning.

My cleaner used to spend most of her time at some houses just tidying up, or just ironing, or deep-cleaning one room: whatever the customer needed. That said, she always says we are her easiest customers because our house is naturally tidy.

So, ask your cleaner if she wants to do an extra half-hour or hour to tidy up before she starts cleaning.

If she's a good cleaner it's worth making the effort to stay in her good books though, so if that ultimately means having to tidy up yourselves before she arrives, it might still be worth it.

What is your top paying rate?? How much per hour?

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday!

What does 'messy' mean to you?

If she has to pick up stuff off the floor or coffee table or dining table then that has to be frustrating for her. It sounds like she's warning you before she decides to drop you.

And why do you call it mum guilt? Why doesn't your DH feel dad guilt at the mess?

Eh? Unless she is saying she cannot get all the work done within the same hours, there was no need for that comment.

My sister has a cleaner and the rule is it has to be tidy so she can come in and clean. She's not there to tidy as well as clean.