Thread 1 Burnham: Esperanza en cada Corazón

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5552800-thread-54-starmer-grev-soppelbottefjes-sommergalskap?page=38&reply=153652516

Intellectual gravity is a thing. Unless external energy is applied then peoples thinking simply sinks to the lowest level. At that point it just bumps along, picking up more dogshit of other dropped ideas that defy logic.

I love AI. Especially when it agrees with me 😀

You are describing mental laziness and the decay of critical thinking within groups or individuals who simply stop trying.
Here is how that specific "intellectual gravity" operates and why it accumulates low-logic ideas.
The Mechanics of Cognitive Sloth
Mental Friction Avoidance: Active reasoning requires intense effort, while passive acceptance is effortless.
Algorithmic Down-Cycling: Social feeds and popular culture cater to the lowest common denominator, actively pulling focus downward.
The Echo Churn: When people stop testing their ideas, they begin swapping and recycling poorly rationalised concepts with others.
Why the Bottom Accumulates Bad Ideas
Zero Filters: Once a mind stops applying logic, it loses its immune system against bad data.
Magnetic Misery: Low-level thoughts (like blame, conspiracy, and outrage) are highly addictive and easily latch onto an inactive mind.
Social Gluing: Dropped, illogical ideas are easy to share because they require no explanation or context to understand.
Injecting External Energy
To stop the slide, a person or group must introduce deliberate disruption.
Forced Debate: Intentionally arguing against your own current assumptions.
Rigorous Environments: Placing oneself in spaces where sloppy logic is immediately called out.
Curated Difficulty: Choosing to engage with complex material that cannot be skimmed or passively consumed.
To look closer at this dynamic, let me know if you want to explore:
How this happens to entire organizations or teams over time
The role of intellectual stamina in resisting this slump
Ways to call out sloppy thinking in daily conversations safely

I guess we could go back to using the original Westminsterenders

Didn't realise Powell has done education before- she was shadow education sec for Corbyn. She is certainly to the left of Phillipson looking at her ideas.

She left Oxford after one year and went to KCL. I'd love to know why.

I don’t mind ‘visitors’. I was one myself, back in the Westministenders days. As long as I can use my favourite gif when they get a bit overwrought and shrieky
And to repeat a pp, the ‘he’s a fecking pensioner!’ came from a longstanding member of this group. Which was bit surprising, as was the refusal to elaborate on why that makes him unsuitable for the Chancellor role. I guess we’ll never know 🤷
Anyway, VAT off electric bills is a good start and so is the sidelining of digital ID for now. It would have been a waste of money adding nothing to the lives of the majority of people in the UK.

I really struggle not to engage with misinformation or absence of rationale. I dislike that the view just sits there with no counter argument for balance for anyone reading along.
So many people have been influenced by one sided arguments from those who shout the loudest. I struggle to 'let it lie..' as Vic and Bob would say.
Will endeavour to do better.

We've probably all done it at some time

Agree a little hint/nudge might be helpful

@Piggywaspushed I saw that about her swapping Oxford for KCL and was similarly intrigued. I don't like her much as a result of what I see as the gaslighting she has engaged in about Burnham's takeover, but perhaps as education secretary she will focus on what they have been saying about allowing regions a greater say in post 16 options for their areas, which is interesting.

I have the same struggle. On these threads I can (sometimes) do it because I know the majority of readers are better informed and the comments are only to stir up trouble.

No one is rationing thread space, so if a visitor states a point I disagree with I am going to carry on countering that. Or ignore. Or gif. Or point and laugh. Whichever I please.

DAG on the suggestion that the Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary needs legal qualifications and experience.

(Is it too much to ask that they are good politicians and legally qualified or have some experience in the area? Maybe.)

https://bsky.app/profile/davidallengreen.bsky.social/post/3mr5h6t7ank2u

@Llttledrummergirl I thought your deleted post was excellent.

Fair enough. But it might drive some people from the thread for a bit if people engage, which is a shame.

Which is also fair enough. I’ve stepped back myself when the direction of a thread isn’t to my taste.
We can’t stop the tantrummy little people, nor should we expect to on an open forum like MN. If they come out with misinformation they can be corrected. No one wants to see an entire thread descend into debating a single point, but let’s face it, ignoring them doesn’t work, they know we are still reading their drivel and why not show up their untruths for what they are with one or two posts counteracting those untruths. Or not, according to personal preference.

From personal experience on these threads @Saucery the 'tantrummy little people' desist much more quickly if they are ignored rather than supplied with attention be that positive or negative

Or you could, you know, listen to another point of view. God forbid you might even learn something interesting.

If you can’t see the issue with an echo chamber then I can’t help you.

Don't need your help, thank you

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c141lymnl2yo

Miatta Fahnbulleh is a good choice and will stick to the brief. Not sure yet about Chris Bryant, though he's a good MP. Regarding Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the benchmark is the fabulous late Mo Mowlam, who as a shadow SOSFNI, was instrumental in securing the Good Friday Agreement and that legacy is, quite rightly, internationally recognised.

As for my misguided outbursts regarding John Healey, I can only apologise for the upset caused. It was distasteful and I should not have posted it.

Fairplay to you placemats.
I think Healey - like Fahnbulleh - will stick to the brief Burnham sets without being a pushover. So I can see why he's been brought in.

Sam Freedman's Substack this morning is an interesting read on the appointments and Burnham's view on the necessary changes for No 10. Cant link to it but well worth the subs.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-andy-burnham-to-slash-business-rates-for-hospitality-sector_uk_6a5f21aee4b0fb869f7bddd6

Thanks @placemats. It doesn't matter to me if the Chancellor is of pensionable age, as long as he's competent in the role. Only time will answer that.
I'm going to give my personal two penneth worth on the wider comments relating to pensions. I'm not quite at pension age yet, but Mrs G and I have both 'paid our full stamp' over the years and our retirement planning, as with many of our generation, has always included the state pension (although of course our retirement ages have moved from 60 and 65, when we started working, to 67 now for both of us).
We don't have £1m in assets - but we do fully own our house close to London so we are 'asset rich'. And no - before anyone has a go at 'boomers' - neither of us received any inheritance to speak of.
Anyone who tells me that we don't merit our state pensions and that we should sell up when we retire and live in a shoebox can frankly sod off. It's worth noting that people of my generation effectively made a contract with the UK to pay the pensions of existing pensioners via NI - on the basis that come retirement we'd get the same treatment. Should it be means tested? I don't believe it should.
Rant over 😊
As an aside - if I were to work beyond my retirement I'd just defer my state pension anyway - I'd be surprised if John Healey hasn't done the same

Have a lovely holiday @dontcallmelen, I'm currently sulking at DH because we can't book anything due to his band stuff!

I know very little (nothing) about pensions although trying to educate myself as for the first time we're fortunate enough to be able to start saving more than the minimum into work ones and lots of the doom-mongers seem to think that by the time we get to that age there won't be a state pension offering. Edited to add that like @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats in terms of planning Mr W and I have always factored the state pension into our sums (I didn't see that post before mine).
But it sounds like there's a vast difference between a portfolio of rental properties and someone who is still living in a house that they brought children up in who have now moved away and it's increased in value? Dad is in the process of downsizing his 3-bed semi, the reason him and mum kept it on so long after we all left was to be able to have visitors stay comfortably.

@TemperanceWest we have friends getting ready for a festival near Ebbw Vale this weekend, they say they're quite far from Blaenavon but can smell the smoke and everyone is being very careful on site as it's normally a working farm and the dry summer so far has made things a bit of a tinderbox

Hello. Have you got that evidence I asked you for with regards to small boat data and NHS waiting list data being deliberately false? Or will you admit your claims were all conspiracy bollocks?

Wasn't that something that the ploppy crowd were promoting as something that won't happen so they will take their ball back ?

I mean it's still rearranging the Titanic deckchairs. The whole relation between property, business and local services in the UK is "well fucked" to use a phrase.

But Rome wasn't built in a day. (And also wasn't built by people who said "Rome can't be built", as an aside)

And the evidence of how many people are claiming PIP who don't need it and how they are doing it and how much it costs. I tried to engage and learn something but PP doesnt seem to want to share her learning. And I've looked really hard and can't find the evidence she's using to teach us.