Whatever Atrocity is Next... - Trump Thread #154

[Spandauer]

I actually put this as a 'placeholder' title whilst I tried to think of a better one. But then, on reflection, copy editing didn't seem necessary.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5479042-blackmail-bluster-and-batshit-bonkers-trump-thread-153

so you think the pizza gate, wayfare stuff keeps mums onside? I dont understand your point.

How they orchestrated their abuse and communicated is one important detail and people are trying to piece the timelines and jigsaw pieces together in their heads because...surprise,surprise we are totally horrified that this has been going on in plain sight and well known by the establishment. it seems. We are bloody raging and unable to take it in all at the same time so sorry our musings are not high brow enough but I can assure you that does not mean we dont see the wider picture of an establishment that is rotten from top to bottom and had no interest in helping the weak and vulnerable but rather in exploiting them in every conceivable way for their own ends. The world as we have known it is a rotten sham .

I suspect they can't make accusations that serious without proof. And that hasn't come out yet...
But yes I agree.

As a general rule I also think it's naive to think that being gay always without question means that a man could never be involved in abusing girls. Paedophillia is its own thing as is sex for the purposes of power and humiliation. Straight women are unfortunately capable of abusing girls in order to please male partners for example. The same goes for gay men. I'm not saying that's the case for Mandleson. But "he's gay so he's safe" is a silly line of reasoning in general.

I think there is evidence the wilder elements of QAnon/pizza gate were seeded on sites like 4Chan by Epstein/Bannon to muddy the waters and basically make everything seem like a crazy conspiracy.

Even saying that sounds like a crazy conspiracy.

@persephonia
My view is that Epstein may have been facilitating access to boys in return for whatever he wanted from Mandelson.

If Mandelson's proclivities are access to power and money, then they were being catered for.

Yeah, but responsible newspapers can't speculate on that. Unless there are male victims able/willing to talk or some evidence. Instead all they can do is say:

we at least know he wasn’t making sexually abusive use of Epstein’s trafficked women and girls."
As opposed to
we at least know he wasn’t making sexually abusive use of Epstein’s trafficked victims"

Yes, that's also likely enough motivation on its own.

I don't disagree but the amount of money that mandelson got is barely anything compared to what he seems to have given in return. Wouldn't there have been something else in that deal? If mandelson's such a machiavellian genius why would he give it up for hardly anything?
Or was he just really really sweet on Jeff?

That article by Amelia Gentleman is also very en pointe.

Taken together it's clear that when Epstein and Bannon say, "women’s thinking is the future", they don't mean listening to women's thinking: they mean directing women's thinking.

They'll nudge us to think as they wish, and we'll to provide services for them.

Sure it'll be different services from the women on Epstein's island, but still services – for their benefit, not ours.

It's not just the direct payments like the 10,000 to his husband. It's also access and contracts for his lobbying firms (dependent on being able to show he can deliver), introductions to other powerful and wealthy people, the future possibility of jobs/more money etc. And it worked. He was always landing on his feet. And the reason he netted the Ambassador contract was because he was well connected and a political power player who knows and gets on with everyone.

I think this from @walllaw is accurate:
The very real abuses, atrocities and political implications are going to end up getting overlooked in favour of a social media-induced moral panic, aren't they? Get the mums riled up with a reprise of pizzagate, wayfair, John Podesta eats babies again and it's easier to keep them onside.

As is this from @flapjackfairy:
the wider picture of an establishment that is rotten from top to bottom and had no interest in helping the weak and vulnerable but rather in exploiting them in every conceivable way for their own ends.

The photo of Maxwell and Epstein, he doesn't give a damn about her and she's completely in love with him
you fecking idiot Ghislaine

well it isn't working v well.If anything it has inspired people to read the emails themselves and look more closely into.the whole putrid mess. I admit my jaw was on the floor when some accusations were raised but I.havent lost sight of the main issues at all. And let's face it all conspiracy theories sound mad until someone proves them right.
There are certainly messages relating to torture and murder written by JE himself so who knows.
Whatever I hope this whole house of cards collapses and people are brought to justice.

Oh yes, I agree that Mandelson can't be assumed to be clear of enjoying sexual inducements.

Just that in his case money and power would be sufficient explanations.

@persephonia Going back to pizza gate etc what do you make of the Sacha Riley tapes? Do you think they were planted to muddy the waters ? He makes a lot of the more outlandish allegations and has said he will testify using a polygraph and it is interesting, (in view of one particular story )that Trump has never sued especially as he is a man who has been involved in 4000 lawsuits and has sued for a lot less.
It is v strange and I dont know what to make of it.

Yup. Flat earthers do it all the time. You can totally and completely debunk a claim, and they just move to another thread and repeat their lie.

MAGA are amazingly similar to flat earthers. And just by coincidence.......

Yes. It's to erode trust and make people doubt their own judgement so they are more likely to follow the crowd. They can then flood the zone with how everyone is voting for the preferred party (absolutely no sign of this on mnet ).

I'm contrary enough to say fuck that

I think it may be that the photographer at Davos didn't do any tweaking to make him look better; obviously the Air Force One flack has to enhance the colour of Fart's hair, smooth out the wrinkles and improve the skin tone. That's been going on since forever, making mockery of "a photograph can't lie" well before AI existed. (Stalin, wasn't it? And before him, at least one of the Nazi bigwigs.)

All the conspiracy theorists I know were drawn into MAGA thinking. That's why I get pissed off with seeing them. They validate the possibly plausible and draw them in to the crazy stuff slowly until the person doesn't know which way is up. It becomes a cult of samethink. They lose the ability to hold any cognitive thoughts of their own, so you end up with debunk rubber ball. It's exhausting.

When I first started looking into this, all conspiracy trails led to far right think tanks and independent right of politics universities. These seemed to be home to disgraced lecturers from other universities. I had to stop chasing down stuff for my own sanity though. I'm one person, and there was a lot.

Nowadays I try to remember that I can't stop the poster from posting samethink, but by pointing out where it's debunked, and why, I can hopefully make a difference to other readers.

I see people are just quietly filling instagram with lovely pictures of the Obamas 👏

I agree it isn't anymore.
Which is good.

Anyone on the 'other' thread wants to tell Ringo again that rent rates are not solely dependent on demand? Supply, as @RedTagAlanhas previously pointed out, also affects prices.

Sit on hands, sit on hands...

Going to our drinks trolley. It's been days of interminable rain where I am and it's now past lunchtime. Anyone care to join me in a bit of daytime drinking? 🍷🥃 🍺

Sounds good to me. I'll have a raspberry, Chlebnyi vodka and champagne cocktail. Or more than one; it's Saturday, after all.

I have just been exceedingly rude to RJ, not just once but twice, and am now wondering if there is enough intelligence there to realise how much it has been insulted.

Yes, I do.

This is the thread I'm talking about.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5487047-please-tell-me-some-of-these-things-are-made-up-tw-epstein?page=1

People are stating wild assertions as fact. It's a known tactic. Scare people enough and you can manipulate them. Move the needle from rich and powerful men abusing women and manipulating policies for money and influence to Hillary Clinton eats babies and Democrats are Satan. I'm not downplaying the abuses and horrors, but it's important to stick to factual reports and analyses as much as possible, particularly in this world of AI manipulation.

Julie K. Brown is the best person to follow on this. She's been reporting and investigating tirelessly on Epstein for years and years.

@flapjackfairy Julie K. Brown seems open minded but skeptical of the Sasha Riley claims.

Off to read the articles linked above

Honestly, I can't stand to look at her so no idea where or when she wears a cross.

But I think she needs to bear in mind the words of Jesus:

Matthew 6: 1-4
"1-Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2 Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 So that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.