Whatever Atrocity is Next... - Trump Thread #154

[Spandauer]

I actually put this as a 'placeholder' title whilst I tried to think of a better one. But then, on reflection, copy editing didn't seem necessary.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5479042-blackmail-bluster-and-batshit-bonkers-trump-thread-153

Musing over '3rd term' choices, fucking hell I'd take Dubya over Scrotus any day if that was my only choice.

She wears a cross most of the time, and so far as I can make out, she is a Christian Nationalist.

"Moreover, Brody asked Leavitt if she believed in “spiritual warfare,” which he described as “good vs. evil.” In response, Leavitt said she did, explaining, “Yes, I believe in spiritual warfare. I saw it firsthand during the campaign. I believe the president was saved by the grace of God in Butler, Pennsylvania, and that he’s in this moment for a reason.”"

Source:

"My Faith Is Incredibly Important To Me": White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt Opens Up About Christian Beliefs - The Christian Tribune

I am atheist myself. The worst type. An ex born again Christian atheist. The type that argues debates online about the Bible.

:-)

You probably know the Bible a great deal better than most of those who profess to follow it while despising their neighbours.

A good Quaker education gives one lots of textual ammunition for these arguments. (Memorable stuff, in the King James, for instance Luke 12 16-21, which Trump might do well to attend to.)

Christianity has nothing to do with the bible. Never has done. Never will.

If it doesn't, where did the idea for it come from in the first place? The Buddha? (Only that doesn't work chronologically, does it.)

Slightly off topic, but my kids went to a lovely Quaker school when we lived in DC. I'm not religious, but I still love going to the occasional Friends Meeting.

I know the Bible well enough :-) But not the middle bit.

I have it open just now on my 2nd screen, because I am debating a Christian on another thread. I am not familiar with Quakers, but by jings ,JWs know their Bible well too.

The parable of the rich fool has just been added to my list thanks very much. I wonder what the "conservative" interpretation is ? I always giggle at the "eye of a needle" one. That the needle was a low gate in the wall of Jerusalem, and the camels had to duck to fit through.

If anyone ever wants to debate "The Bible", then your immediate first question is "Which one ?". This tends to stop 80% of "Christians" and saves you wasting energy on idiots.

If you can get beyond that, and agree a text, you'll never remove the contradictions and ambiguities.

In fact, a close reading of any bible does rather leave one with the impression that it's much more a man made artefact (with the emphasis squarely on "man") than divine revelations made real.

And frankly, as an orator, God is right down there with Richard Nixon as a prosesmith.

I think i have a faith, broadly based around the St James bible, but as a military brat, most of my religious experience was in a military church, so calling down the might of God to smite your enemies.

I think religion was and is used as a tool by the rich and powerful to keep the ordinary people in their place, and that extremists on all sides are dangerous and to be avoided.

I'm a firm believer that you should be able to live your life however you like, as long as you do no harm. If you do, then you make it right.

Religion has no place in politics.

LlttledrummergirI
Religion has no place in politics.

And vice versa, I feel.

Well, also talking about videos they saw online that had the sounds of children screaming. Another person points out that that won't have come from the file drop because there were no videos included and someone else then counters along the lines of "you think children weren't screaming with the things they did. It could easily be a video related to Epstein". There's a logic/reasoning failure there. Likewise the channels etc using AI generated images of what Epstein could have gotten up to, or using AI to remove redactions (AI just guesses it's not a magic genie), or generating random AI images online.

I think that's unfortunately very normal behaviour. You have people doing that during earthquakes/terrorist attacks (uploading old images from elsewhere, using AI). I think it's to feel at the centre of things/as if they have a scoop no-one else has. Or to drive content to their channel. The "good" thing about the Epstein files drop though is that the 3 million pages released are there for anyone to see. So it's very easy to cross reference "new shocking image of..." With what is actually there. So fact checking is easier and although there are people coming from multiple different angles/political perspectives/biased I think there is actually a lot of interest in the truth rather than what's most convenient for their mindset. Which is a refreshing change in itself.

I'm back in unable to cope with all this shit mode, so I give you, from that esteemed organ (fnarr, fnarr) Privat Yee:

I don't know. How could we? Discussing things on the Internet isn't the same as finding things out.
You have false flags. You also have people that, for their own purposes, lie about being involved in major scandals (eg Carl Beech). There are also real victims who aren't believed because their stories sound too salacious/extreme. It would be awful if it were all true and he was dismissed out of hand. And it's entirely possible boys were also abused, there just isn't the evidence for it now the way there was with the abuse of young girls. That doesn't mean it didn't happen..It also doesn't mean it did.

The UK army committed actual war crimes in Iraq (not everyone) but the actions of one law firm - paying people for stories and accepting/pushing cases with lots of holes in them gave the then Conservative government an excuse essentially to effectively stop investigating. Operation Midlands into historical child sex abuse was damaged by Carl Beechs (in retrospect very obvious) lies and the police eagerness to believe them. I think the investigations tailed of after that...

But on an individual level I think you should "believe people" in the sense that the immediate response shouldn't be to call them a liar/hound them/pick apart their personal life or character. So either way I think Sacha Riley deserves sympathy and basic human respect whilst keeping an open mind.

Yes, I know. But part of my point is that this weird, shady, heavily (and sloppily) redacted release is not answering a whole lot of questions or bringing perpetrators to justice. They're still running the world and we're still getting information off of Elon (what night is the best party on the island, Jeff?) Musk's shit site. And Elon (what night is the best party on the island, Jeff?) has had zero repercussions and has a financial and political agenda to wash the information, not to mention form for being willing to lie and push disinformation to further that agenda.

I mean, some might be willing and able to comb through 3 million pages with the vast majority of the perpetrator's names redacted, but that's not most people. We're getting the majority of our information secondhand and a very significant number of people aren't too picky about the quality of that information.

I mean, you do have people on that other thread stating pretty confidently that pizza gate and Wayfair were real. I'm seeing John Podesta being floated around again.

@walllaw I have been on the thread you linked to. Anyone suggesting that it is wise to be careful not to believe everything that is on SM is being given rather short shrift by some posters.

Eta: apologies! This is the thread I meant, not the one you linked to. Similar theme though?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5487372-is-anyone-else-struggling-after-going-down-epstein-files-rabbit-hole?page=1

In LA, no less.
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2020174081858138300?s=20

And this. I don't think DoJ will get away with not releasing the remaining 3 million files.
https://x.com/krassenstein/status/2020105647052718259?s=20

I wonder if it could be done by volunteers?

I'm not sure about volunteers doing any actual work. Most of the more expensive 'restoration' is going to need skilled laborers and certain locations would need security clearances. Plus any volunteer work would need to be supervised by federal employees who would then be need to be paid.

I know that a lot of the shit Scrotus is doing is supposedly 'paid for by private donations' so I think removal and restoration could be paid for that way, too. I'd certainly donate to that cause.

ETA; that ballroom isn't going anywhere though. Hopefully they'll de-bordello it and rename it. I've mused on 'The Obama/Biden Ballroom', but as a rule the federal govt doesn't name things for living persons. Hmm, who now deceased would give Scrotus an apoplexy if their name were affixed to 'his' ballroom?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/07/nsa-foreign-intelligence-trump-whistleblower

NSA detected phone call between foreign intelligence and a person close to Trump
Whistleblower says that Tulsi Gabbard blocked agency from sharing report and delivered it to White House chief of staff

AcrossthePond55
Hmm, who now deceased would give Scrotus an apoplexy if their name were affixed to 'his' ballroom?

John McCain? Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Jimmy Carter?

This is why you need journalists.
And there are decent journalists who have been working steadily on this for a while. I agree about the issues though. And also, as someone who worked in a job that meant handling a lot of unpleasant material/information, I do worry that some people are getting really embedded in the files without considering the toll on their own mental health etc. It can bget very dark when you are dealing with the worst of human nature every day and it's easy to get drawn in.
I guess this lady has the same concerns as you....

But the other side of it is that there are some good things coming out of it as well. It's better that people care about it than they don't. And there is a lot of public anger which is good.

Martin Luther King Jr.

Harriet Tubman. She was set to be the next face of the $20 bill. Guess who shut it down?

NYT confirming MS NOW reporting:

Prosecutors began investigating Renee Good's killing, then Washington told them to stop.

Federal prosecutors had a warrant to collect evidence from Good's vehicle, but Trump leaders said to drop it. About a dozen prosecutors have since departed.

https://bsky.app/profile/kylegriffin1.bsky.social/post/3mec7zeynx22v