Another person murdered by ICE

[Mericanilondon]

I’m in tears and shock at the brutality happening in broad daylight in the US. I’m a US citizen, emigrated to the UK for family reasons 12 years ago (now dual citizen), and I am just in disbelief at what’s happening. I was sick when I learned of Trump’s first election and gravely disappointed by the second one. But the sheer brutality of what’s happening in MN right now has really thrown me. I have friends and family there, in Chicago (where ICE raids were occurring in the autumn), in NY, and in California. I’m hearing that even worse things are happening in the Deep South but fewer observers and press to report on it. Posting here because I feel so lost.

Of course I have seen the news. What is happening in the US is no worse than in many other countries.

As I said, the last time that Trump was in power, the news CONSTANTLY reported how unsafe the USA was. People tried to talk me out of even going to the USA on a holiday at the time. I went and had a lovely time.

You do know that the news only reports negative things don't you? Their aim is to keep people worried in general, as worried people are easier to control.

When have you last seen a news story about something good? The news is purposefully negative to cause fear.

I'll tell you this. The news about the U.K is also extremely negative!

I lived in another European country last year. The news about the U.K was constantly negative. It constantly showed the UK to be crime ridden and suffering economically after Brexit.

When I told my friends that I was moving to the U.K, they were worried about me moving here!

The news only ever shows the negative things about countries

Oh I see, I've read more of your posts --> look squirrel! I'll pass on engaging with you as you're not currently posting in good faith.

This thread is about ice et al killing peaceful protesters in the US, and the lies by the trump government/maga supporters.

(deliberate lower case)

Oh a bit like Charlie Kirk’s murder then with everyone defending that.
Don’t know why you think I would be defending students innocently being shot on campus. don’t judge everyone by your own standards.

Well you can’t say that about me that I have written in support of Ice or Trump.
But I can see why you would fall into that way of thinking.
Isn’t that the standard practice for those on the left/liberal/socialist camp unless you agree with their thinking. Can’t just be that they are questioning the validity of your arguments, no must be on the “other side”.
And again what misinformation or pro violence have I repeated.
Facts are important not just what you think so you are wrong on that one.
Laughing at the “we just keep refuting their points with actual facts”, I think you’re the one living in an alternative reality.
Oh you are ok with “their posts not being deleted.”
Normal people pmsl.
The facts are abusive posts are deleted, no matter who makes them.
Just because you are salty that someone on “your side” who was abusive had their post deleted because of abuse is based on your feelings not facts.
What was it you were saying about actual facts 😂

Duplicate

I can’t imagine anyone watching the murder, on an American street, of a citizen exercising his Second Amendment right: an ICU nurse leaning down to assist a woman lying on the ground having been pushed by government agents, who wouldn’t be appalled no matter who did it, or who ordered it. The witnesses have all been taken from the area and locked up in further violation of the rule of law. It’s reminiscent of Argentina during the Dirty War.

You seem a bit confused so I’ll put it plainly. Anyone who can argue for this is a Fascist, whatever their stripe.

Well now you are twisting it because I wasn’t thinking or even mentioning the shooting in any way whatsoever in my comments.
But then you would know that if you weren’t trying to twist things to fit the “they’re a facist/racist/bigot” insert whatever buzz word makes you feel superior.

This has multiple angles.
That there are people defending the cold blooded murder of Alex Pretti is beyond comprehension.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DT6NWtzD7dW/

That’s how you know they are from the Midwest

No worries, if you don’t like those terms, why don’t we just stick with Trump and ICE apologist and supporter, because that really covers it all, doesn’t it?

Ok. I’ll bite. So if you truly don’t support Trump, ICE, and the violence occurring, what are your views, in a nutshell?

If we’ve genuinely misunderstood you, then tell us why. I’m listening.

You do know that the news only reports negative things don't you? Their aim is to keep people worried in general, as worried people are easier to control.

I’m almost jealous of your stunning naïvete and inability to read the room.

Are you suggesting that while innocent people are being shot in Minneapolis, that maybe there’s a Disney parade on the next block that they should be reporting on? If anything there is not enough attention on this. On everything that Trump is doing.

If you are genuinely interested in understanding what you’re missing here, go and have a look at Heather Cox Richardson’s social media post. She is an American historian who will give you a daily overview of what’s going on.

What’s happening to American democracy impacts the whole world. I’m not religious, but god fucking help us all. Like I said, I’m almost jealous of your inability to realise the knife edge the world rests on while this plays out.

If you have specific other concerns, of course, feel free to start a thread about those things you would like to draw more attention to.

P.S nobody gives a shit about your American holiday. This is way beyond ‘where I want to go on holiday…’

I'm not naive Risingtramp, you are. You act like this has never happened before.

I'm Irish. I have been brought up hearing about innocent Irish protestors being murdered by the British army.The British army were supported by the British government. No one has ever been charged for the murders.

ICE are supported by the US government. They have not been charged for ICE murders

Your posts don't surprise me though. The hypocrisy of some British people is astounding at times.

Whilst tragic, unless the perpetrators were armed masked immigration officers, I fail to see how this is relevant.

Relevance:

UK Posters saying the USA is really unsafe and no one should go there

Me - pointing out that the UK is also unsafe, and that I was also warned not to move to the UK before I moved here, as people were afraid for my safety.

Speaking of British hypocrisy, in my workplace last week one of the English women was saying how terrible Trump is - for wanting to invade Greenland.

We all looked at her.

One of the other non English women that I work with, then said

"But what about all the countries that England invaded?There are so many!"

You are hilarious and desperate! You bring up a crime in the UK, history of us invading countries, the Irish troubles, and a completely irrelevant holiday you had in the US....anything, just anything to divert away from what this Administration are doing.

It is quite funny actually 😅

Surely you can see that although British colonised countries in the past, decolonisation has been a process since the end of world war 2.

If Britain announced today that it wanted to invade Greenland and take it’s resources that would be as shocking as the US saying this.

We are seeing world order changing. That is what makes this a major event. Of course there are countries like Britain who have acted like this in the past but you can’t just throw your hands up and say well look at colonisation. Why would you want to return to that?

Then did everyone on the bus stand up and clap?

The problems are all being engineered from the top. There is deep resentment towards immigrants from the working poor in America.

Since the 1960s, poverty has been defined as an income less that x3 average food costs. Because in the 1960s people spent a third of their wages on food, and if they couldn’t meet the basic costs of participation in society, they were in crisis and needed state help.

Today food accounts for 7% of household costs, and is the only cost that has risen in direct line with inflation - all the others have risen exponentially. Poverty is calculated the same way since the 1960s. The threshold for help now sits at 21% of the cost of participating in society.

As people earn a bit more, they get less help, while still struggling. In practice this means someone in a two income family, who can’t pay for their groceries is looking at a newly arrived immigrant or single mother paying with food stamps. Of course this leads to deep social resentment. Even more so in a country that promises to reward effort and hard work.

In day to day life poor Americans are looking at other poor Americans, and getting angry so they vote for rich millionaires and billionaires who claim they understand and want to sort out the problem.

Meanwhile economists are declaring unprecedented growth, and a higher than ever number of rich Americans because they use the same model to declare people who are in the 90-100% range of earnings relative to need, as “rich”. These people are also likely to be caught in the other great poverty trap of debt. How to keep an entire population poor and distracted.

The resentment, is completely manufactured from the top down. The fear of science and medicine and life saving vaccinations is coming from the top down.

The question is why?

As long as we continue to believe the propaganda that American government is a democracy of the people, by the people and for the people, it makes no sense.

But it’s not really democracy. It’s an oligarchy of the rich and powerful, protecting the interests of the rich and powerful. A confederacy of billionaires. The elections are Los Vegas style showdowns, a Boss Fight, a Clash of the Titans for the entertainment of the masses, but that’s as far as power for the people extend.

It’s never been so blatant as it is in the Trump administration but it’s not just the Trump administration. The fog of lies upon lies, upon lies keeps us all arguing about distractions. The chattering masses, releasing our fury safely and impotently onto social media, and presenting absolutely no danger to anyone.

What a depressing world.

I see your reaction deflects and takes zero accountability for what the U.K. have done in the past.

How dare you say it's funny. I worked on a peace project in Northern Ireland. I saw families cry about their family members being killed. I saw the devastation that happened.

If I ever raise the topic of Northern Ireland in England, the answer ALWAYS is 'no one gives a shit'. The lack of empathy you have demonstrated is also disgusting.

Again another deflection and lack of accountability from a British person on here! It's so predictable.

If I actually see a British poster on here write,

'yes what the UK did in the past to other countries was terrible' I will be shocked.

I have constantly seen a lack of empathy on mumsnet about topics like these. There is zero empathy, and also a complete lack of awareness about your own history

I simply do not believe that was the reaction to a discussion of Donald Trump potentially invading an EU country.

Pointing out that the UK has also invaded many countries?

Of course it was

It is not in the past.

a lot of the commonwealth countries still want to get free of British rule

"Numerous leaders of Commonwealth countries have spoken out following the Coronation, saying they hope to become republics — free from the rule of King Charles III."