Another person murdered by ICE

[Mericanilondon]

I’m in tears and shock at the brutality happening in broad daylight in the US. I’m a US citizen, emigrated to the UK for family reasons 12 years ago (now dual citizen), and I am just in disbelief at what’s happening. I was sick when I learned of Trump’s first election and gravely disappointed by the second one. But the sheer brutality of what’s happening in MN right now has really thrown me. I have friends and family there, in Chicago (where ICE raids were occurring in the autumn), in NY, and in California. I’m hearing that even worse things are happening in the Deep South but fewer observers and press to report on it. Posting here because I feel so lost.

I haven't heard about a second one but the first woman wasn't murdered.

It is so shocking that Trump has enabled untrained men with guns to patrol at will on the streets in US. Sadly I am wondering if the fact it was a white man this time will give more people there pause for thought. All very Handmaid's Tale.

She was murdered in cold blood in broad daylight. See how easy it is to tell the truth?

Yes she was, we all watched it, that's the problem for ice, people can film them. And you would know about the second murder if you checked the news.

Not sure what you consider murder? I’d argue there was a degree of premeditation given the amount of times he shot her (three, FYI. In the face.)

I’m so sorry for what’s happening to your country @Mericanilondon

Of course she was murdered. How bigoted do you need to be not to see that?

@Mericanilondon I'm so sorry. It must be hugely distressing watching this. Do you know there are long running Trump (anti, obviously) threads here on Mumsnet? Lots of Americans posting, both living in the States and here. Please come and join us. We're all horrified, and you'll get support and camaraderie and fellow-feeling. I hope you might feel a bit less lost. Sending love.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5479042-blackmail-bluster-and-batshit-bonkers-trump-thread-153?page=6&reply=150082667

@Mericanilondon 💐for you - it’s so awful to watch. It must be so much harder in your position.

Your attempts at gaslighting won't really work when we've all seen multiple videos of the killing.

Is this the man in Minneapolis? Sorry, there seem to be so many stories like this coming out of the US at the moment and I’ve not seen it reported it was ICE (not arguing it isn’t BtW, just trying to find the right story)

Yes she was.

It was a Border Patrol officer. Trump himself has identified the man as an ICE agent. BBC News has a rolling thread on the matter on its home page. Perhaps start there?

I'm sure if your friends and family don't wave a gun around and threaten to kill the ICE agents, they'll be fine.

Pistol whipped and on the ground when an ICE agent emptied a clip into him. Witnesses have been corraled into a building and no legal assistance is allowed in.

The victim was laying on the ground with five or six agents who were on top of/ surrounding him. One was punching him in the head. Then one of the agents shoots him dead. They all step back. He was in no position to harm anyone. The more these agents get away with, the more empowered they will be to do whatever they want.

This is awful. There are videos from different angles and it’s clear he’s not doing anything to them; he was helping a woman up who they’d just shoved to the ground ffs. It’s cold blooded murder - not even in self protection.

Maybe if the ICE agents were trained to deal with volatile situations and weren’t merely a bunch of Fascist boot boys, they’d be able to effectively de-escalate without shooting American civilians in the streets.

BS.

She was murdered. Even if we use the ICE arguments of she was a domestic terrorist, then law enforcement are taught in how to apprehend suspects. That isn’t shooting someone in the face three times. If guns are necessary, they should aim for a non-lethal shot if possible. If, as ICE claim, she hit the ICE agent it was at a maximum of 7 mph and even if you believe he was scared there were 3 shots to the face which was far beyond the realm of what is proportional for self defence. One shot to the face is far beyond what is proportional for self defence.

Proportional would have been noting down her plates and arresting her after. At a push, shooting out her tyres. Now, even if the law enforcement misjudged and shot her, he prevented medical assistance reaching her when she was no longer a threat because he shot her in the face three times. Every law enforcement agency works to the idea of preservation of life first and foremost. Or should do anyway.

So let’s see any argument of self defence falls down on proportionality and preservation of life after she was no longer a “threat”.

I can’t imagine how hard it is for you at the minute OP. This is still your home, no matter how long you’ve been here. Watching your home country become unrecognisable and essentially a war zone must be heartbreaking. I hope they manage to find the witnesses who were close to the agents and detained.

She certainly was. But if that doesn’t bother you too much, perhaps you could focus on the five-year-old boy in a bunny hat with a Spider-Man backpack that was used as bait on his return from pre-school and sent to a detention centre.

Lots of other examples, if you’d like me to run through a few, in order to help you find your missing compassion. Happy to help.

How the fuck is shooting someone multiple times IN THE FACE not murder? Jesus Christ 🤦‍♀️

I didn’t know these were there, I’m going to come and join. Thanks for posting them.

That's a pretty low bar to have.
People should be able to protest without fearing for their lives.

I would not like to live in the US right now.

Exactly this.