Sarah Everard thread 2

[HangingOver]

Keep venting.

Original thread here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4362028-Anyone-follow-the-coverage-of-the-Sarah-Everard-case-today-and-want-to-vent?pg=1

I don’t disagree with @Northernlurker et al - yes, we need to make noise, we need to support each other, we need to call out misogyny

But it feels like none of this is actually working

Do we take to the streets? Glue ourselves to the M25? Write to those in power until there are no words left?

I know I’m not the only one on here who is feeling angry, sad and hopeless today

@Porcupineintherough, I am glad that is happening, but essentially we have generations of men who think that it's;
'Only banter'
'Just a joke'
' Assault with a friendly weapon'
And probably lots more besides.
Then we get to the prevalence of porn. The snuff videos, the rape videos, the ones that show activity which, in my youth, would have been either very niche or definitely thought of as being abnormal but has now become mainstream.
I'm sorry, but sometimes I think we are going to hell in a handcart.
It will be forever before it improves.

All,

New hear, but I have been following this and the previous thread as was also distraught and angry following Sarah’s case.

Following other posts, the least we can do is push to get reforms of the current laws against women and children reviewed, by our government. There should be ZERO tolerance for abuse and violent crimes against women and children (and all in society), but at the moment, the imbalance of male on female crimes is so obvious and we should make a stand.

I’m disgusted how low the prosecution rates for rape and violent, abusive acts against women are and we should no longer accept this.

I am not legally trained but bet some of us here can advise what we can practically do to protest and request reform of the stagnant, out dated law and prosecution routes currently used. These are not tailored to the fact that women and girls ARE subject to more violence and assault, from men, overall.

I cry thinking I’m sending my daughter into this society where it’s been normalised for us to have to second guess whether we should walk home alone, wear a short skirt etc., for fear WE may induce something unthinkable happening to ourselves. This must stop.

All ideas and support welcome....I’ll be back online after work

I think we should do something like this... protest peacefully outside police stations and courts and demand change.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34602822

Writing to my MP over the past 5 years has done nothing to change the woeful rape conviction rates. We need to be bolder and make use of the fact we're 51% of the population.

My other thing generally, is when I get angry (practically all the time) I do wonder why it is women are talking about this, wondering how we can solve it. Why are men not having this same conversation.

I get it, that its because we are the ones being hurt and we want to stop that for ourselves, our mums, daughters and sisters. But as I have seen and said myself, why is it down to women to stop male violence.

If they want to yell its not all men, then why don't they prove it with coming up with more sensible ideas than them having a curfew, or my brilliant idea, of making them all wearing signs, saying things like I make sexist jokes, I stay silent when other men make these jokes.

Why has yet another problem about men been dumped on us again, without them doing anything other than yell its not all of us.

Not mentioned in today's news but I forgot to mention Danyal Hussein, killer of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman to add to the list of shame

For a start I’d classify rape porn as illegal
Misogyny should be treated like a hate crime

I'm glad someone brought up pornography. I dont know how much longer people (even feminists) can go on being pro porn and denying the link between extreme porn use,misogyny and escalation into this sort of behaviour. Same for prostitution...I would bet my right arm that Sarah wasn't Couzens' first rape/murder victim. Men like this start out on prostituted women who they can 'get away with' killing, and then move on to members of the public once they have practice in. Nordic model is a solution.

Has there actually been any research done on the easy use of availability of porn and violence, surely that would be something easy to check?

I still remember when the only you could get porn is send off for it in the mail, or buy them from a corner shop right up on the top shelf, or find them in the woods. I am sure there were a couple of other ways, but mainly all involved having to go out, rather than sit on your laptop and type in a few words.

Could I also ask us to remember Libby Squire who was snatched off the street, raped and murdered by a man who had spied on women and committing indecent acts?

@Gimlisaxe

Has there actually been any research done on the easy use of availability of porn and violence, surely that would be something easy to check?

I still remember when the only you could get porn is send off for it in the mail, or buy them from a corner shop right up on the top shelf, or find them in the woods. I am sure there were a couple of other ways, but mainly all involved having to go out, rather than sit on your laptop and type in a few words.

I think this is interesting point. As a society we have all become less culpable. Social media allows people to bully people behind the comfort of a screen. Hardcore pornography is available at the touch of a button, no need to worry about the shame and embarrassment of having to buy it off the top shelf. It all contributes to the not giving a fuck about other people culture we live in.

Pimp State by Kat Banyard has lots of references to studies that show the damage porn is doing with regards to men's attitudes to violence against women. It's a grim but eye-opening read.

Women are treated with contempt

Our safety and rights are an limp wrist reactive afterthought and come second to the mollification and endurance of root and branch misogynistic regressive infrastructures. It is so pervasive that so often should a woman get a foothold within this set up they become apologists or part of the problem. Like Cressida Dick. Alongside pornography and the continued objectification as well as denigration of women via social media, the “entertainment “industry and the tabloid guttersnipes seems to become evermore absorbed into the mainstream and another facet of what a woman has to contend with.

All these Laws, Rights and Legislation? We’re as vulnerable as ever it’s just more insulting and harmful as there is token garbage spouting and some heads going above the parapet. Harm to us is sought in insidious ways in every aspect of our lives abs identities because we are reduced to demanding things we should never have had to have fought so hard for. It feels to me as if the powers that be could they’d wash much of it away. It is a dark time.

I am so angry and despondent about what the future holds. That beautiful young bright woman had her whole life cut short and so many lives literally shattered because again a man was entitled and he was allowed to keep going when we now see he should he been stopped.

When will the legacy of one of these tragic women actually really be enough to put an end to it.

It chills me to think that in weeks to come this will all fade until the next time.

I've been reading about life in prison, hoping it won't be too nice for him.

It seems the food is really bad, limited TV channels, no internet or highly restricted internet. Food served in your shared cell, sitting on your bed if you get the lower bunk, sitting on the loo to eat if you have the upper bunk.

I really hope he doesn't get any internet access, I can imagine he would lap up every word written about him.

It shouldn't just be on women to work out how to minimise their risk.

Perhaps a FoI to every Police Force asking for information about what work they have in train to assess their procedures to protect lone women from personal crime by plain clothes and by uniformed Police Officers?

Will that murderer keep his pension and benefits? Will his assets be taken in a civil suit?

Can we have an foi request for all the "jokey" nicknames they have for each other, while they're at it?

I think when there is a clear sadistic sexual element to a murder such as this, the offender’s penis should be viewed as a weapon of war. He should not be left to relive his crimes for sexual pleasure and should be chemically castrated. I would never vouch for capital punishment, but positing the penis as a weapon which should be removed in the same way a firearm should be removed would be a a game changer in framing rape and sexually motivated murder as totally unacceptable.

So pleased he got the whole of life term, though, like others, i suspect he won’t be there for long. His type of man are cowards, he’ll be looking for a way out and I wouldn’t be surprised if prison guards look the other way out of revulsion.

There was no alternative for him. Hopefully he rots in prison. Oxygen thief.

@ElFire

I think when there is a clear sadistic sexual element to a murder such as this, the offender’s penis should be viewed as a weapon of war. He should not be left to relive his crimes for sexual pleasure and should be chemically castrated. I would never vouch for capital punishment, but positing the penis as a weapon which should be removed in the same way a firearm should be removed would be a a game changer in framing rape and sexually motivated murder as totally unacceptable.

I agree with you. Chemical castration should be standard treatment for sex offenders until a psychologist deems it no longer necessary (and even then they should have periodic reviews).

The first thing we need to do is pushback against the erosion of women and girls as their own distinct biological sex.

You cannot have sex based rights and protections if you cannot define sex.

I wish as women we could just go on strike.

That's right the value we hold as 51% of the population removed. Imagine if every woman just said "not today" I'm not working, I'm not cooking, I'm not cleaning, I'm not doing the school run. I'm going to stand outside the police station day in day out till you change.

Till 49% of the population take us seriously. Our safety, our rights.

How long do we think the men would cope without us to iron their shirts or ferry their offspring around. How long would it take for men to realise women have tried asking, tried protesting.

I'm tired of "keeping myself safe" no you keep me safe by educating yourselves and changing your behaviour, and till you do it I'm not doing anything anymore but to stand here silently and do nothing.

If anyone sees anything on social media about organised events /protests I'd be very interested to hear. The last ones near me were cancelled due to Covid. I live in the middle of nowhere but will travel.

Why do officers routinely take warrant cards home?

Agree. What can we do now. Protest, petitions anything to stop accepting the current normal. Come on all. What can we do now?