Sarah Everard thread 2

[HangingOver]

Keep venting.

Original thread here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4362028-Anyone-follow-the-coverage-of-the-Sarah-Everard-case-today-and-want-to-vent?pg=1

@SimonaLynn

The latest article in DM really makes me angry and saddened with how women are valued by those in parliament. It has now been confirmed that the murderer had some shifts in Parliament and now the headlines come that the Speaker is sickened and some MPs are outraged as they should be protected by a 'ring of steel'. They are furious this monster had an access all areas to parliament? Should we, every woman in this country, not have a right to be protected from him and is it not outrageous enough that he worked in any capacity for the Police regardless of where his shifts were at? Is it not sickening enough that he was able to be in possession of a warrant card that enabled him to carry out his vile act?

And I know it is the law but it is unbelievable that he was paid for four months whilst being investigated for this crime. Surely given his occupation, gravity of the situation and strength of evidence we now know they had this should never have been the case?!

I agree. I can't remember which MP was quoted fretting about their "ring of steel" but I thought the comment was really off colour.

Interestingly when he was arrested my sister mentioned that she'd been verbally harassed by a uniformed officer outside parliament.

You really would think the met would have had time to come up with some real and meaningful changes to announce in conjunction with his sentencing.

Agree @Pikamoo, they will have known how the crime was carried out for months and yet the best they can do is a statement of “sorry, we will learn lessons and in the meantime the bus drivers will protect you”. I mean WTF?!

CD should have stood in front of the cameras and been able to say “We are utterly appalled and apologise to Sarah’s family and friends, and all women who feel unsafe. We will be conducting a thorough investigation and review of all of our procedures and in the meantime here is list of things we will be doing immediately, including prioritising our response to crimes against women and girls by doing xyz”

Where I live there's one bus an hour...should I just wait hopefully?

I think bus drivers should get a pay rise if they're expected to protect women from male violence as well as driving buses. Given how pervasive it is, there will be a lot of late buses too.

I have been verbally abused by a bus driver. I would not look to them for protection!

BBC News - Commons Speaker wants Met Police to explain Wayne Couzens' Parliament work

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58777685

Are MPs requesting an explanation of his murder of an innocent woman? Or do they only care that he guarded parliament? Honestly, do these people not think about how their words sound before they say them?

@MyGhastIsFlabbered

Where I live there's one bus an hour...should I just wait hopefully?

Well yes that's the thing isn't it?

Presumably the Met were only speaking for themselves (as most seem to be about this situation) & where they operate there are an abundance of buses that can be safely & willingly flagged down?

@AdaColeman

Philip Allott, North Yorkshire police commissioner, has the answer. It’s for women to be more street wise, and to educate themselves on the law and their legal standing. If only Sarah had known her rights, Philip says, she wouldn’t have got into the car. So that’s alright then.

There’s more on this statement on BBC News.

I couldn't believe what I was reading yesterday when I saw this article. Beggars belief. Absolutely patronising to all women.

We can't expect the Government or the establishment to take a lead on ending VAWG.

The Government arranged to extend Cressida Dick's contract a couple of weeks before the verdict (got that in quickly didn't they?) despite the controversy and dismay. And the extension granted by the Queen who is currently busy spending our - sorry, her - money on protecting her son facing charges of sex with a trafficked woman.

Our Prime Minister Johnson, a serial philander, admits to having how many children? A former member of the male only Bullingdon Club; just a teenage bunch of testosterone filled ‘lads’ having fun.
Police called to his then girlfriends flat about disturbing angry and violent sounds from inside.

This is the man we think could be leading the fight against VAWG? I don't think so.

Not to put such conduct on a par with that of this murderer, who is a different order of evil. Just to say that such murders though rare, are the tip of an enormous iceberg of misogyny in our society, of which BJ along with other establishment figures are very firmly a part.

@AdaColeman

Philip Allott, North Yorkshire police commissioner, has the answer. It’s for women to be more street wise, and to educate themselves on the law and their legal standing. If only Sarah had known her rights, Philip says, she wouldn’t have got into the car. So that’s alright then.

There’s more on this statement on BBC News.

I was appalled at this.

I’d like to think I have a reasonable grip on police protocol (due to my job) but if the Met expect people to question police and resist arrest they’re crazy. Unless the solo officer has a body camera it would be your word against the Police. Guess who most people would believe? Not to mention you’d be up on charges for resisting or hindering police.

Police officers fail to follow protocol all the time. Usually it’s for non criminal reasons.

@Pikamoo

BBC News - Commons Speaker wants Met Police to explain Wayne Couzens' Parliament work

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58777685

Are MPs requesting an explanation of his murder of an innocent woman? Or do they only care that he guarded parliament? Honestly, do these people not think about how their words sound before they say them?

Translation:

Sir Lindsay Hoyle splutters 'but how could someone like THIS be anywhere NEAR the likes of us?'

Of course it's fine that he flashed normal women quite a lot from the sounds of it, and wasn't prosecuted. Don't bother about those crimes. And not a mention of Sarah Everard either.

Lovely that the politicians are only belatedly springing into action on this when they realised there may have been a risk to them, whilst seemingly not giving a shit about what happened to Sarah. (see also reappointment of CD recently)

@diddl but even in London where there are a lot of buses (if you're on a bus route) they won't stop if you flag them down away from a stop. Even if you're at a stop they sometimes don't stop!

@theemperorhasnoclothes it’s infuriating. I think parliament was much safer than the poor women on the streets when he decided to go hunting. We’re any of the MPs subject to flashing/kidnap/rape/murder? No. But of course it’s all about the most protected people and their safety. Fair enough if he was a terrorist but he was a threat to women. Meanwhile bloody LBC are trying to get Oliver Dowden to agree TWAW which is hardly the most pressing of issues while bio women are literally being removed from the streets and murdered.

I think the absurdity of the suggestion that a woman could flag down a bus for help, highlights how ill thought through all that 'advice' was.

The suggestion that women should be more 'streetwise' is just insulting. I & most women I know could not be more streetwise if we tried, several worrying experiences have sadly taught us that.

The onus cannot be on women to stop violence against them. Any response to this tragedy which includes advice about what women 'should' do and I just switch off in disgust.

I think basically I wanted to hear them own WC in the way that Muslims are expected to ‘own’ Isis members - its extremely hypocritical for the Met to be able to say he’s not a real officer etc etc. It says to me they are distancing themselves and pretending it wasn’t their culture in which he thrived and felt confident to spend hours driving round trying to find a victim, abuse his knowledge of procedure to wipe his phone, use his warrant card and handcuffs etc and make up some shite backstory about gangs.

I think we need to ensure that so-called minor crimes like exposing the penis should be reframed. They are not minor crimes, they are often the start of an escalation into sexual assault and then murder. Get away with taking your penis out and the male just becomes invincible; 'I got away with that, so what's next?' No-one starts off raping and murdering;it's the culmination of lots of other undetected/ignored crimes.

I agree with this. What do we need to do to get the police to take it seriously though?

The only way women could become more streetwise is simply by not going out at all (or perhaps only with a male chaperone).

We're not allowed pepper spray etc. I know it can be used against us but it's still true we're not allowed any way to even the disparity in strength between men and women.

Most women faced with a lone male police officer gone rogue has no chance.

Sarah had no chance and it's really unbelievably dreadful that the Met have issued any 'advice to women' at all given that this is the clear and obvious truth.

It is their fault he was free after committing the crime of indecent exposure. He shouldn't have been. He should have been ideally incarcerated but at least suspended and under investigation. Instead he was emboldened.

Sarah had no chance, there is literally nothing she could have done. If she'd run, he'd have caught up probably. Were there any buses going by? No.

Their 'advice' is an insult to Sarah.

Taken from a news article - so we should just trust the police because Boris says we should. Honestly, what can we do? How do we make those who are in the position to make meaningful changes listen?!

The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show on Sunday that he wanted Britons to “trust the police” as he declined to back calls for a public inquiry into the policing of violence against women following the killing.

“My view is that the police do - overwhelmingly - a wonderful job and what I want is the public, and women in particular, girls and young women, women of all ages, to trust the police,” Mr Johnson said.

[quote Pikamoo]@diddl but even in London where there are a lot of buses (if you're on a bus route) they won't stop if you flag them down away from a stop. Even if you're at a stop they sometimes don't stop![/quote]
Well quite!

" I got away with that, so what's next?' No-one starts off raping and murdering;it's the culmination of lots of other undetected/ignored crimes."

And colleagues appearing to condone-could that have factored at all?

@diddl

" I got away with that, so what's next?' No-one starts off raping and murdering;it's the culmination of lots of other undetected/ignored crimes."

And colleagues appearing to condone-could that have factored at all?

Thank God he was apprehended. Had he not been, this dangerous individual could easily have ended up being the next Steve Wright.

It's time indecent exposure was taken far more seriously. There's a clear correlation that this is the way more serious events often start. Aside from which, it's terrifying and intimidating for women and a serious offence in its own right.

The culture of enabling in the Met is also seriously concerning. It's also an established part of certain other aspects of our culture, for example the history of the BBC, the whole footballing industry, the fact that even as recently as this Friday I was harassed on public transport by a sweating old perv. It's disgusting. Rail travel for one is rapidly becoming a no-go area for women, as I'm finding out in the midst of the fuel crisis.

This rot has set in from the top down. I don't know what the solution is, particularly as long as women are treated with the contempt that we currently are.

I can't get poor Sarah, or Sabina Nessa, out of my mind this week.

Ironically, there was a bus passing by at the time, as its camera provided part of the evidence of Sarah being "arrested".

But of course poor Sarah didn't know she needed to wave it down for help, because she was doing what Boris wants us all to do ...
trust the police!

Throughout all of this, particularly the responses of politicians and the police, I've been constantly reminded of Germaine Greer saying in The Female Eunuch "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them".

@SimonaLynn

Taken from a news article - so we should just trust the police because Boris says we should. Honestly, what can we do? How do we make those who are in the position to make meaningful changes listen?!

The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show on Sunday that he wanted Britons to “trust the police” as he declined to back calls for a public inquiry into the policing of violence against women following the killing.

“My view is that the police do - overwhelmingly - a wonderful job and what I want is the public, and women in particular, girls and young women, women of all ages, to trust the police,” Mr Johnson said.

Johnson can get the hell to fuck, then fuck off some more.

I don't CARE what he WANTS us to do, i.e, carry on as normal, being used, harassed, battered, violated and killed, with nary retribution nor complaint.

His view is irrelevant, out of touch racist, classist, misogynist MALE that he is.

I don't trust that bastard any more than I'd trust Sarah Everard's murderer. And I feel that all those with the responsibility and authority/ability, to do something, are complicit in the murder of Sarah, and the 81 women killed thereafter. . . and for every woman that has been raped, battered, and harassed, as well.

@AdaColeman

Ironically, there was a bus passing by at the time, as its camera provided part of the evidence of Sarah being "arrested". But of course poor Sarah didn't know she needed to wave it down for help, because she was doing what Boris wants us all to do ... trust the police!

I know, which is why the police can fuck off with their shit advice.

This is a structural problem of misogyny in the police. We need a tireless campaigner like Doreen Lawrence to come along.