Embarrassed after last night

I find it so strange that you don't see the point in teaching them how to behave in these situations! Surely that's part of raising well rounded children? Then again mine didn't have access to any screens (and I really mean that, I've never owned an iPad or any type of tablet) until they were 8 & 10 and even then it was only because school was online for a while. They have been brought everywhere, long haul flights, coffee shops, sat quietly in gyms while I worked out and no they never misbehaved. Most kids are like yours though, everywhere I go someone's kids are running around screaming and shouting or stuck to devices.....depressing really

Sorry, but I agree with this OP

There's being grumpy, out of sorts, difficult at the table and then there's annoying the crap out of everyone else in the restaurant. Not acceptable.

You should have taken them out if they couldn't stay at the table.

As much time as they like on weekends?

You're destroying their attention-spans. Seriously. Please stop.

My DH and I have been having a similar debate to the OP after an experience eating out last weekend!
We were in the outside seating area of a kid-friendly Italian chain with kids menus etc- think Pizza Express/ similar. Our kids, 3 and 6, were running around around the outside tables a bit before and after the food was served. While we were eating, they were at the table but before and after they were going around a bit.
They weren't screaming, running or bothering other kids but occasionally I did feel they were getting annoyingly close to other diners or waiters or being a bit loud.
Part of me thought it was sort of OK in the outdoors area of a child-friendly restaurant (would obviously not have been OK somewhere more formal) and part of me wondered why they couldn't all sit nicely at the table like some of the other families I could see. But then my DH pointed out that literally all the kids who were seated on tables the whole time had iPads.
He said he felt there was nothing wrong with kids being kids in a family friendly restaurant, and that he'd rather our kids were being kids than sitting staring at a screen. He said anyone annoyed by kids running around a bit outside on a sunny day in a family restaurant could do one basically.
On balance, I think I probably agree with him. If it spills over into bad behaviour like screaming etc that's different but in general I do think it's a bit sad that the general intolerance of children in Britain means that so many parents feel they need to resort to screens to keep their children quiet and subdued at the dinner table at what's supposedly a child friendly restaurant. For 20 mins yes but they aren't going to sit at a table silently for an hour and what's the alternative- never go out?!

Running - clear warning then outside for exercise if happens again
screaming - tell to stop then take home if happens again
take toy - not sure why child would have been wondering around, but warning and take outside if needed
poking - as above

What absolutely can’t happen is that any of the things above are accepted without clear consequence.

A snack before a meal out is item a good idea. Plus some colouring in to do while there.

Two small boys at some sit down dinner??

No way, they shouldn't be expected to behave, they are in completely the wrong environment for their age.

We've only just started eating out with our two and they almost 7 and 10!?

We did have "that child" in my family. She was a proper little diva, unlike her more self-contained siblings. Thing is, she was a diva (still is, fwiw, very successfully at 32!) and so absurdly, insistently charming that few adults minded her using them as her audience.

Thing is ... she used to ask them "Am I annoying you?" When someone suggested she might choose another spot for her floor show, she'd smile with astonishing grace for a four-year-old, and move away 😆

I'd say she was, in fact, competently socialised for her age - just in her individual style!

It's not ideal, is it, to take children to somewhere that isn't really child friendly.
So I'd suggest starting to train them in the way of the world in cafés and so on, where you can leave fairly quickly if they play up.

If you go out wth small kids, you pretty much have to be on top of their behaviour all the time, unless you're in a child friendly (i mean with play area, activity packs etc) place.

Running - clear warning then outside for exercise if happens again
screaming - tell to stop then take home if happens again
take toy - not sure why child would have been wondering around, but warning and take outside if needed
poking - as above

===

Just easier to stay home??

Don’t worry op, my kids were little sods in restaurants when younger. They weren’t interested in the food and were bored with adults talking. We stopped eating out for a few years as the expense wasn’t worth it.
They’ve grown into lovely, well behaved teenagers.

You have avoided these types of places so of course they haven’t been taught how to behave. You need to teach them. How do you discipline them at home? You need to find some way to adapt that for when you’re out.

I’m quite laidback with screen time usually, but restaurants are the one place I don’t let them have their iPads. They have to learn to converse, order their own food, and sit still. I’ll take colouring but it’s one piece of paper and 4 crayons.

My experience is young boys are a lot more difficult than girls the same age, it's not all in your control. Next time you are heading out, maybe take a small grab-bag of small rewards that you will only give them if they are behaving and let them know on the way there.

we go to our local pub sometimes but they have a kids corner with toys/books and a little playpark outside no one there expects the kids to just sit down quietly.

So your children behaved exactly as could be reasonably predicted, because they've never learnt how to behave in sit down restaurants. They'll have to learn it as a life skill at some point, so why not start taking them out for lunch just as a family, or an early evening tea for one course, so you can start teaching them in low stakes environments. Do you have a Hungry Horse near you? that sort of place would be ideal, somewhere where kids are expected, are supposed to sit at the tables but it's really no biggie if it all goes belly up while they are learning.

I think you could probably do with learning some methods that will help you to help them, too. Like as PP have mentioned, if they're at the point of getting up and running around between courses, take them outside to run off some energy for 10 minutes - get somebody to text you when next courses arrive.

I think it is normal for kids that age to get bored or have trouble sitting through a muti course meal but what that bored behaviour looks like matters.

You can take them outside to run around in between courses and give them a chance to move and burn off energy. You can also rbing ipads and toys to distrct and occupy their time. But it is also important to teach them to behave in that setting and it sounds like some of their behaviour needs correction and more teaching.

Soon they will be in school where tehy can't do what they want when they want all day long. They will need to follow a schedule and spend time at a table / desk and to not engage in the behaviours your kids did if they are bored or tired or sitting.

That embarrassment you feel is a good thing. It is a motivator to start to teach your kids to handle more environments and situations where they can't run wild.

At your dinners at home, start by having everyone stay at the table until everyone (assuming it isn't a long time) is done versus getting down as soon as they finish. Starting to learn basic table manners is a child thing, not an adult thing.

They're not far off starting school - they'll be asked to sit and listen for a lot longer than 20 minutes there. At least now you know what you need to teach them - sitting still, listening and interacting with others is not adult behaviour. You should have expectations of them when it comes to behaviour - it's important.

Your kids sound like a nightmare TBH. I would be one of the diners giving you filthy looks. Set firmer boundaries and discipline them better.

It is unfortunate if your choice to homeschool is depriving your children of learning age appropriate behaviours and social skills.

You can homeschool and still teach your children age appropriate social skills and behaviours. If you want them to run wild and not get a long with others or manage basic social situations - then you are achieving your goals.

I think if you really don't want your children to feel they have to sit down and "behave" at this point in life (coming from your home schooling post) then you just have to avoid situations where other people will expect this. So meals out, buses, planes, ferries, theatre, cinema etc etc.

I do wonder why you feel so strongly that this isn't something they should learn to do (but then feel horrible when they don't do it) though. Are you reacting against a really strict childhood?

I agree.

Avoiding eating out is frankly ridiculous. Model how you want your children to behave, pay attention to them, include them in conversations, focus on them. You're only kicking the problem down the line otherwise. Teach your children how you want them to behave, it just takes practise and reinforcement - and no iPads to distract them, put your own phone away too - involve them in the world around you and talk to them. Expect more of them - they can do it.

Sorry if I've missed this, but where were you in all this, OP? How did you counteract the behaviours?

And yes, sorry if this isn't what you like to hear, but no, it's not normal. I have raised my own kids with very contradicting temperaments, but even the one with indefinite energy would not behave like this in public.

TBH I'd judge the screens on both sides more than anything. Kids don't need screens to keep them entertained.

We went out for food recently and it took ages; we read books instead and most places provide colouring if you ask. Time for old-fashioned guessing games, finger games etc. - anything where you interact with your kids (because they were clearly craving attention) but which keeps them from running around and deliberately annoying others.

You need to work on this, and it won't always be fun. But without the work, trust me, they'll behave like this in other public places (including school) too.

My oldest would be great in a situation like this. My two boys are close in age and if they were separate would be fine but together they tend to get a bit crazy so I understand. They're very young and they'll learn I just avoided situations like that for a few years while mine were small it was too difficult with 3 small ones.

Now they're 5 and over it's much easier and they behave really well.