Embarrassed after last night

I genuinely have no idea what you’re on about and was actually hesitant to respond to you as your comments are so very odd

Dinner knives are not sharp. It's easier to hurt yourself on a fork.

They can still kill (or cause serious harm) if the child runs onto the end of it, especially if it's at eye level...but sure, let's focus on them not being sharp 🙄

This.
I'd be embarrassed too.

I’m sorry you were unable to understand my post. Better luck with this one!

This sounds like my toddler. What usually happens we first give him an iPad and then when it wears off, we take turns and walk with him around the restaurant or go outside to entertain him…

Kids definitely play up more when they are hungry/tired/close to their bed time.

I wouldn’t beat yourself up about it.

But you can do this at home. They don’t need to go to a restaurant.
We try to eat together at least a few times a week (certainly on the weekend). Kids eat with us, we chat, and they have to keep sitting for a little bit after they have finished. They can chat to us or listen to us chat. You can start with 20 mins and build it up.
By 5/6 my kids could happily sit with us giving them attention and chat for an hour (about mostly 5/6 year old nonsense but they could do it).

Then for restaurants I would always take a colouring book/sticker book and once they learned to read an actual book. So our rule is that at the start of the meal we all chat together etc. Food is done. Then if the adults want to chat a bit more over dessert/coffee I bring out the books/colouring books.

My kids are not docile. One of mine if left to his own devices would have been described as ‘spirited’. But it’s our job to teach them how to make conversation, how to play nicely, how to behave in public. We also do travel extensively with our kids. And what it teaches them is patience. There is nothing wrong with kids getting bored, learning to be bored and not being disruptive when bored. This is a really essential life skill.

Other things to do with kids that you can do at home that teaches them to sit calmly and be part of family life is to encourage board games. We have been playing them from just under 2 years (the Haba orchard baby game) and it teaches them so many good things. Taking turns, having fun as a family, a little bit of competition and learning to lose. We sometimes take a small card game out with us now if we know there is going to be lots of waiting around etc. But the preparation for this has to start at home.

Wow all these replies about you needing to teach them how to behave! They are 3 and 4!
I have 2 boys, a year between them. They are now 7 and 8 and still can’t sit nice and quietly in a restaurant! I see kids that do and that’s great but I truly don’t believe it’s parenting. It’s down to the nature of the child. My kids are busy, they’re easily bored, they’re active and once they’ve finished their meal they want to jump up and move onto the next thing. Rightly or wrongly it’s how they are. We do eat out quite often but I make sure we go places that are family friendly and service is quick. Even an iPad won’t keep them in their seat because they argue over games and what level each other is on haha. Siblings close in age will always bounce off each other and wind each other up. It’s how it is, I imagine your 2 are like a little double act. Enjoy it, they will hopefully be great friends. To all the people judging, they just got lucky with easy going kids.

Ermm - no we didn't 'get lucky' - we spent lots of time teaching our DCs what sort of behaviour we expected in social situations and modelling the behaviour we expected from them.

Exactly luck has zero to do with it. Parenting your kids is not about luck it's about taking time from what you'd rather be doing to teach them how to behave. And it's for the kids sake far more then so a parent can enjoy a meal out. No one wants to be THAT parent of THAT kid

Everytime I read a thread like this I am thankful smart phones and tablets were not a thing when ds was very young. But the time they came out and he had one he was 11ish and was never allowed one at the table as it was still considered rude then.

We had to interact with him in the restaurant or on long journeys, we had to parent and teach him how to behave in these situations. He learnt to watch and listen and join in conversations, he even learnt to be bored sometimes. Because he developed social skills and didnt have good nose in a screen other adults made the effort to interact with him too.

Many parents now are lazy and dont put the effort in, they allow screens so they can selfishly enjoy a meal without having to parent and deny to themselves just how much it is impacting both their childs development and long term wellbeing.

I shocked by the comments here! They are just normal kids who were probably tired, hungry and bored.

Hahaha! You did get lucky, you really did. You can teach and expect all you like but if your child doesn’t want to sit still they won’t. Enjoy parenting your easy children and judging those who don’t have easy children.

Actually I didn't have easy children. I had a son who never stopped running, who loved nothing more than jumping and climbing. It took a lot of work from a young age to teach him that there were certain situations where he was expected to sit and wait. He was never allowed down from the table at home until everyone had finished eating - it was non-negotiable. He was taught table manners, I should add that phones and electrical devices have never been allowed at our table. Back then we chatted about our days, school, the weather, his favourite cars, anything that kept him engaged. Now he's an adult we still sit at the table after a meal and chat about work, the news, his car(!) - it's one of the highlights of my day. That work we put in as parents has paid off in the most spectacular way. It's not judgy to say if you put the work in now you'll reap the benefits in twenty years time - just as I am now.

What a complete load of bollocks. I was one of 4 children. 3 brothers and me. My brothers could cook up a storm in a padded cell at the flick of a switch.

My parents put a lot of work into us behaving properly when in public. My dad only had to look at us in a certain way and my brothers would sit down and shut the fuck up regardless of the situation.

Easy children, getting lucky. FFS is this what parenting is now about.

Brilliant parenting. The family dinner table. Rules. Discussions.

Its becoming a lost art unfortunately. But its ok, its all because you are lucky......not because you worked hard for it.

Why is it a good thing that your dad only had to look at you in a certain way? I hate this old fashioned attitude of being afraid of your parents.
Would I like my children to be more civilised while out in public? Yes. Do I understand they are children and their brains haven’t matured enough to be able to behave like an adult? Yes.

Who said we were afraid of him? I said he only had to look at us a certain way. The same way if we acted like that at our own dinner table we knew we would be told off and there 100% would be consequences. Is that a bad thing? The consequence could be losing the use of a toy, being sent to our beds or whatever it needed to get the point across. Not everything has to be about being violent. Consistency is the most important thing but that takes hard work.

The 2 year olds brain in the op has matured enough to be able to act sensibly in public without too much effort. Kind of negates your reasoning.

I am honestly baffled by the number of parents on this thread who genuinely think that something as basic as getting their children to stay sitting at a table during a meal isn't possible unless you have an "easy kid".

It's not like those of us who manage it are saying it just happens. It doesn't. DD has been going to restaurants since she was a baby and now, at 5, she will happily sit and chat for most of the meal but will probably do some drawing or something in between courses. But that didn't happen overnight. At first it involved constant attention from me or DH / repeated redirection and reminders of our expectations / walks outside between courses / lots of entertainment in the form of sticker books, puzzles, drawing, games etc. It was hard work, and sometimes she didn't behave and we had to remove her from the restaurant and take her home. But that's parenting. Nothing "just happens". You make it happen but doing it over and over and over again.

SEN aside, there is just no excuse for a child not being able to behave properly at a mealtime.

Wow there’s a lot of judgy replies. Your kids are very young, and it’s not reasonable to expect them to sit quiet and still for an extended period to keep adults happy. You could prepare a little differently. With mine, I would have given a small snack at their normal dinner time to help them get through. Think about what you can bring that they can play at or under the table, simple card games like old maid or memory match are good, or a few figures and vehicles. If they want to get up, could they make visits or take pictures and messages to others down the table or could you take them outside or to a quieter section with empty tables to play for a bit. But tbh sometimes kids just need to be kids and it’s better to go with it than create conflict.

Why are people so obtuse and black and white around here? It's obviously a combination of easy kid/difficult kid + parenting + situational.

People are very accepting of the term 'easy baby' and that being a 'thing', which has zero to do with parenting, but suddenly a 3 or 4yr old can't be 'easy' or 'difficult' and it's down to parenting alone? Rubbish. There's also the maturation aspect in there. If you've worked hard to get your kid to sit pleasantly at a dinner table for a year, then a proportion of your success is probably due to them simply getting older.

It can also be hugely situational. My twins (now 5) together, will NEVER sit pleasantly at a table in a restaurant – they will rile each other up. a) Because siblings 100% do rile each other up and b) because they are the sort of twins and personalities to be susceptible to rile each other up. The same undoubtedly goes for siblings either close in age or very into the same things/behaviours. When my daughter, however, is with her older cousin, she is infinitely better behaved.

We do not allow devices and tables or mealtimes and we are very strict with their behaviour at tables – this has led to lots of discipline and lots of removing them from the situation Time and time and TIME again. Guess what – they just won't do it, not when they're together at least.

They've gotten much much better at the dinner table at home, but I largely put this down to maturation. At meals out, they may be improving over time, but again, maturation.

OP, in the scenario you describe, with two boys very close in age, I imagine they feel completely justified in their behaviour because of being close in age, both boys, and being together. The other children you mention being there – a single child, and a brother and sister further apart in age – are much less likely to misbehave. Throw temperament in there, and you've got even more reason for misbehaving.

None of it is acceptable . Running around and screaming certainly not

OP, be kind to yourself. No one expects perfect behaviour from children 24/7 - they are children! It’s happened now, take stock of your feelings and use that to move forwards.

A dinner is a long time for children and it sounds like they didn’t know better. However, the poking and taking toys isn’t ok and that would have annoyed me as the other parent.

I agree with the other posters about iPads and think it’s a shame they are used so much at dinner times. There’s lots of great ideas on this thread as an alternative to iPads.

I think the more exposure your children have to lots of different places/situations and the more you explain/show them what’s expected in terms of behaviour, the better equipped they’ll be.

Try not to compare to others, everyone has a different approach 😊

My children run around at home and it’s very hard to get them to stay still at dinner.
When we are out they are very well behaved. They will watch tablets but generally sit and chat, play with dolls etc. I don’t take my kids to expensive restaurants (can’t afford to) but I do take them to cheap ones and pubs for dinner. I do think it’s helpful if it’s not an abnormality. My eldest at 18 months was a horror in restaurants but we kept taking her and now at 3.5 she’s generally excellent. We do occasionally have to take her for a little walk. Maybe if you go with them and take them outside for a few minutes?
I would be unimpressed by the poking other children and taking their stuff in any scenario. I think at 3 they are normally old enough to know that’s not acceptable. My 3 year old would be in trouble if she tried that.