Embarrassed after last night

I’m thinking back to when mine were that age- pre iPads. We’ve always enjoyed eating out, so they had experience of it, but I would have been prepared with with colouring, a couple of toy cars, a mini jigsaw, a where’s Wally type page etc in my bag and I’d have interacted with my kids a lot. I definitely wouldn’t have expected to get away with chatting with other grown ups and ignoring them at that stage.

If it was just dh and I were eating out with them, we’d skip either our starter or dessert because there was a limit to how long they’d sit. If we were out in a bigger group, one of us would end up taking them outside for a bit.

I’d consider that mine were well behaved within the limits of what can be expected of small children.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect dc of that age to entertain themselves even with an iPad. But I’d be very disappointed if they were screaming at me, or disobeying a direct order. What are they like with you at home?

My kids would never have been allowed to behave like that nor did they ever try.

Oh dear..... well it was kind of like someone expecting me to run a marathon after doing 3 strolls in the park as training. But now you know there is a gap in what you are teaching your children, you know that it needs fixing and can do something about it. Take the learning, make any apologies that are needed and move on.

Behaviour differs between children and places.
My son is fab in restaurants, but a little terror in other places. We have lots of friends who are far better off than us, they get frustrated that their children don't behave like my son in restaurants when we all eat out, but when he's unrestrained, and so are their kids....guess who doesn't behave half as well!

Let it go, don't panic.

These times will pass.

I'm not sure all the iPads in the world can compensate a small child for lack of decent adult attention

This. We occasionally took our dds to restaurants from these early ages.

We all engaged in conversation, all four of us. About anything we could think of that they would understand. OK it wasn't the most adult focussed meal out, but it did the job and taught them how to behave in restaurants.

Having said that, they were both really laid back contented kids so maybe I wasn't particularly challenged.

I had a couple of embarrassing times where my kids misbehaved in company. I realised afterwards that I should have prepared them better, like explaining in advance what would happen and what behaviour was expected - I just expected them to behave, I guess, but the situations were new and they were overexcited. It can be hard to lay down the law when you're already stuck in the situation.

If your kids are 3 and 4 and you've never tried to teach them to sit and eat a meal then you're causing your own issues. It's perfectly normal for kids to be in those places, they enjoy a meal out like the rest of us.

I sympathize with you OP. My child was the same and only got better more recently (he just turned 5). We always took him out with us, in family friendly restaurants, more elegant restaurants, with just us or on larger family gatherings or with friends with and without other children. It was hit and miss, but we learned time after time what to do better.

When other posters say it's your parenting, I would LOVE to understand what that means as it really sounds like 'you don't tell them off enough/not shout enough/not make them aware properly of the consequences'. Well, we have done and done all of that to no results.

However, we paid attention and learned what worked for our child and I am happy to share my findings in case they are of any help:

• ipads/mobiles were and are a very short term solution and need to be administered knowing the side effects (my son's brains stop working when he watches something on a device, so when we switch it off he's like a hyper zombie incapable of listening - nightmare in social context). If we really need 5 minutes of adult conversation as we are discussing something important or need to take a call with no distractions or want to eat that delicious dish, we use it. But it's a very very last resort for us.
• he likes activity books and sticker books and he's happy to sit quietly at the table if an adult helps him peeling/reading, so we always stock up on new ones and we keep them for special occasions for meals out.
• he likes building little Legos at the table, so again we buy some simple and little ones (we don't want to take up all the space on the dining table) and one of us plays with him while the other joins the conversation at the table. We often switch or delegate other relatives, everyone happy.
• I always always always bring some small toys before leaving home. Figurines, little cars, little dinosaurs. The moment he gets super bored I take them out and he normally plays for half of the meal with them.
• I make sure to sit next to him and that we both sit in a 'strategic' position, if possible with our backs to a wall, next to a corner, far from where the waiters would serve/walk and even better if there is some little room for him to play standing next to his chair or below it. I would not allow that if it was in anyone's way.
• If there the option, I ask for lunchtime meals or early dinner meals, as I know when he's tired he's less inclined to listen.
• I plan my day accordingly to the occasion. If we have to go for out for a meal in the evening, I try to have an easy day, with some fresh air but not for him to be completely worn out, so I have more chances for good beheaviour.

I would say this is more or less within the realms of normal child behaviour - boys especially tend to be more boisterous, and if your kids were bored or overwhelmed with the situation then of course they acted out. It doesn't make you a bad parent, it's basically normal behaviour; some kids don't do it and some do, and a lot of that is down to inborn personality traits rather than faulty parenting.

However I'd definitely work on making the iPads only a weekend thing. They are an uncontrolled experiment on children's developing brains and from what I notice at the daycare where I work is that the kids who have regular access to one are less adept at dealing with difficult emotions or situations and are more hyperactive and stressed. It may seem good to give them an iPad to get 30 mins' peace but you maybe causing a long-term problem in order to solve a short-term one.

Like you we have extended family who have late meals out (ours were the first children born from our generation) and this didn't fit naturally with our children's life when they were little.

In preparation (we started this very young)
We played a 'restaurant game' at home It involved pretty table setting - candles - grown up cutlery but also conventions like passing things/asking for things/and making polite conversation in turn :)

( I can't tell you how much fun the polite conversation was. They chose a subject and had a turn to tell it. this was a bit like 'show and tell' at school and was just as unexpected at times. We had volcanos - dead pets - best ted and all sorts... not all approved for future use! )

It made a very ordinary home dinner into a very special occasion each time :) and I think that they quite enjoyed showing off their special skills at adult events.

In prep for very difficult times we also played the 'under the table quiet' game. When sitting with adult conversations/drinks for tooooo long they were allowed to sit under the table and play 'secretly' with toys saved for this. Mini boxes of raisins were required when the wait was very long. The aim of the game was not to be noticed :) and to get away with it.

Points were given :) and praise and winners afterwards.

Yes to all of the advice from user1471523870!

I don’t take my children out for dinner often as I don’t find it massively enjoyable at the moment (having to police their behaviour) but when I do they get a warning if they behave in a way that’s disruptive to other people in the restaurant/cafe. If they do it again then my husband or I would take the child out of the restaurant. Sometimes it makes for dinners bolted down in thirty seconds flat on your own but so be it! I think if you did everything you could to manage your children’s behaviour then there’s nothing to feel embarrassed about. But if you and your husband were both there then I think that should involve taking children out of the restaurant if necessary (sometimes they just need a two minute breather and a reminder that they can’t do x, y, z.).

I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with avoiding situations for a while and trying again when they’re a bit older to see if they find it easier.

I don't really expect my kids to sit still for long periods ever. 20 minutes for meals maybe but that is it. I don't see the benefit in asking them to behave like adults

Then why did you set them up to fail? Why did you accept the invitation when you knew they could not behave themselves in a restaurant?

I wouldn't be embarassed, but I'd divide the behaviour roughly like this:

running around - fine.
Screaming - acceptable from the 3 year old, not 5 year old.
Poking and taking toys - not acceptable.

A mixture of distraction (one adult going outside between courses) and active telling off parenting (we do not poke people. we do not touch people when they say no. if they poke again they get no ice cream. If you poke one. more. time. I will take your ipad away).

I think that unlimited screen time at weekends it the problem. They get used to that level of entertainment. I think that no screens at all is ideal, and only use it very rarely in emergencies if not.

Running around a restaurant is definitely not fine AmazingSnakeHead! Massive safety risk for the poor staff glassware and plates of hot food.

Screaming isn’t acceptable from anyone in a restaurant either. People are paying good money to eat out and shouldn’t have to listen to that.

Exactly this.

Good grief Amazing Snake, running around is NOT fine in an enclosed space with hot drinks/food and sharp knives 😱

I don't really expect my kids to sit still for long periods ever. 20 minutes for meals maybe but that is it. I don't see the benefit in asking them to behave like adults

It's not "asking them to behave like adults" to sit down quietly in a restaurant while you eat a meal. I mean, your 4yo will be in school next year - he won't be allowed to steal things off other children, run around the dining room or scream when he doesn't get his way.

You owe it to your children to prepare them for life - that means teaching them table manners, how to behave on public transport, how to queue nicely in a shop, how to behave in a supermarket, how to say please/thank you etc. Yes, it's exhausting when they're three and would rather be playing games but it gets easier the older they get.

In what world is running around a restaurant acceptable behaviour?

It's not only annoying, it's incredibly dangerous.

I think it's fine, next time it will be someone else's children not wanting to sit and yours will be well behaved !

We take our son (2.5 years old) out to a restaurant every week really so he’s very used to it. He knows to wait for food and that the waiters bring it, and that dessert is ordered separately. He’ll sit at the chair and play with his toys or sometimes watch some tv on one of our phones. But I expect that’s because he’s gone to a restaurant every week since he was born pretty much. I never take him out for an evening meal as I know that wouldn’t work for him (getting tired and noisy, busy environment isn’t a good mix for him particularly if he’s hungry too) , so it’s quite understandable your children behaved the way they did in a new environment and out of routine.
That said, it’s really not acceptable behaviour and I’d be fuming if someone’s kids were running around screaming whilst I tried to enjoy a nice evening meal, they should really have been removed from the environment.

OP, some children behave more 'easily' in these situations than others. My DD and DS2 would have been sitting quietly. DS1 would have been like yours. Same parenting, same experiences, different personalities.
Given that other than tell them what's expected, offer entertainment and distraction and correct inappropriate behaviour when it occurs is about all the tools you have at your disposal, and you used them all, there's not a lot you can do about it.
The only thing I'd suggest is to skip these events until they're a bit older. Just explain to the family your DC don't enjoy restaurants so it's more relaxing without them. No big deal.

The thing is op, the difference between a nice restaurant, a McDonald’s and a coffee shop is irrelevant to kids. They don’t walk in and think ooh this is nice. The behaviour should be the same in each location.

so even if it’s not Just you don’t agree kids should go to nice restaurants, maybe it’s financial, you can still take them to cheaper locations and they should behave the same. Even if it’s just for a coffee and a small drink. You don’t need to spend much money.

as said though, I don’t believe it’s simply about teaching them how to behave in each location. It’s about basically teaching them to behave full stop and if a parent says no, stop, and explains why, then a child should do it in most circumstances, unless other issues at play.

it doesn’t matter if it’s a shop, the cinema, or McDonalds, kids need to be taught gently to understand why a parent says something and then do it.

I am the least strict person in the world. But if I said to mine, ssh now, sit and play quietly, others are being disturbed, I will help you, they did it immediately . Children need to be treated with respect, taught, explained why to and also explained in advance what’s expected of them. And rewarded when they behave. Even if it’s just a compliment ie I’m so proud of you.

Have you spoken to your children about their behaviour since you got home? They won't learn if you don't teach them.

Europe isn't really more child friendly than the U.K. I lived in Paris for years and children joined adults in normal adult restaurants. It's not unusual to see parents pushing a buggy home from dinner at 11pm while a 5 year old skips along with them. Most restaurants don't have a corner for children to go play so they learn to sit at the table with adults (and yes, iPads between courses because it's silly to expect a child to enjoy listening to adult conversations). The children grow up finding restaurants normal.

I would never expect kids that age to behave well in a restaurant. It’s just not an appropriate place and they are so young! Don’t beat yourself up over it.