Talk

Advanced search

Important Standing For Women House of Lords Meeting today, "First Do No Harm - The ethics of transgender healthcare" hosted Lord Moonie, focus on the Duty of Care

(95 Posts)
R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 09:20:41

"Standing For Women is pleased to announce our meeting at the House of Lords, hosted by Dr Lord Moonie entitled "First Do No Harm : The ethics of transgender healthcare."
3.30 - 5pm 15th May 2019, House of Lords Committee Room 2A.

Our talks are:

"Towards compassionate science based medicine/care for gender questioning individuals."
Richard Byng GP and Professor of primary care medicine at the University of Plymouth

"Freedom to think: the need for thorough assessment in gender dysphoria"
Marcus Evans Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, Member British Psychoanalytical Society and The Institute of Psychoanalysis

"Medical Harms of Gender Affirmative Therapy"
Michael K. Laidlaw, MD. Endocrinologist

"An Urgent Call to Action to Protect Young People and End Experimental Identity Medicine"
Leila Leoncavallo Kelsey Coalition consultant

"The Spread of an ideology and the targeting of children in UK schools"
Stephanie Davies-Arai Author, teacher trainer, parent coach and Founder of Transgender Trend

followed by a Q & A lead by Dr Lord Lewis Moonie

relevent theads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3586026-Lewis-Moonie-has-resigned-from-the-Labour-party-shock

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583824-Let-your-MP-know-about-this-asap

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583675-Foster-children-3-and-7-transitioning-Times-article

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582478-Judge-over-rules-social-services-concerns

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553935-Times-article-calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

Genderfreelass Wed 15-May-19 09:26:30

Hopefully there will be a good turnout. I'm glad it's a closed session to allow more open and honest discussion of the issues without TRA bullies - although no doubt there will be some ally MPs there trying to call everyone transphobe, hopefully not though.

Genderfreelass Wed 15-May-19 09:27:54

Be intetesting to see if Morduant turns up - she should do but well 😕 we'll see.

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 09:31:36

February 2019 thread OP GrinitchSpinach wrote:
"Susan Bewley et al Letter to the BMJ: Safeguarding adolescents from premature, permanent medicalisation

Susan Bewley, Margaret McCartney, Lucy Griffin and Richard Byng standing up for minors again. Bravi!

...While respecting individuals’ right to a different viewpoint, it is neither mandatory to affirm their beliefs nor automatic that transition is the goal, particularly when dealing with children, adolescents and young adults. These risk closing the ‘open future’, as well as life-long physical problems including lack of sexual function, infertility and medical dependency. With 85% desistance amongst referred transgender children (8) and increasing awareness of detransitioning (9, 10), unquestioning ‘affirmation’ as a pathway that leads gender dysphoric patients to irreversible interventions cannot be considered sole or best practice.

More good-quality research trials are required to provide reliable evidence of clinical and cost-effectiveness of a range of approaches, including patient selection. These will surely include exploration of underlying unhappiness with the goal of achieving body/mind reintegration. In contrast to previous medical scandals that pathologised homosexuality, something different may be happening here. In effect, transitioning children who would otherwise have grown up lesbian, gay or bisexual may introduce another form of conversion (6). A well intentioned but permanent medical pathway for all is unlikely to achieve the best long-term outcomes. Confirming disgust in natal sex or external sexual organs, especially for those with prior childhood trauma, risks medical collusion with, or reenacting of, abuse."

[[www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l245/rr-1
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507254-Susan-Bewley-et-al-Letter-to-the-BMJ-Safeguarding-adolescents-from-premature-permanent-medicalisatio]]n

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507254-Susan-Bewley-et-al-Letter-to-the-BMJ-Safeguarding-adolescents-from-premature-permanent-medicalisation

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516110-Tavistock-Governor-quits

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 09:36:35

Be intetesting to see if Morduant turns up - she should do

This has less to do with Penny Mordant and more to do with Ministers responsible for Health, Children & Safeguarding.

IMO one of the key issues has been that discussion has been restricted/ contained (likely by TRAs) to be a matter solely for 'Equalities'.
Women & Equalities Dept have demonstrated a failure to recognise and prioritise Safeguarding & Duty of Care responsibilities towards children & vulnerable adults.

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 09:44:27

Marcus Evans stepped down from the Tavistock board and is one of the professionals to have whistle-blown serious Safeguarding concerns about the NHS clinic

Featured in the powerful Swedish documentary, Subtitled by Peach Yoghurt:
"Uppdrag granskning - The trans train

The increase of teenage girls with gender dysphoria worry parents and health care staff in several countries - because of the lack of research on the new group of patients. What if the irreversible decision to undergo a gender correction is a mistake?"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGAoNbHYzk

(from 29:00)

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3571009-Trans-Train

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 09:50:24

Michael K. Laidlaw, MD. Endocrinologist

Dr Michael Laidlaw (endochronologist) evidence given to California senate Foster Care BIll June 2018:

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=0Lu1r1pyGFc

April 2019
'Medical Risks of Hormonal and Surgical Interventions for Gender Dysphoric Children'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYtGPLpW-g8

Tweets here: twitter.com/MLaidlawMD

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 15-May-19 09:51:57

Sounds like an important meeting. I'll look forward to hearing the outcomes.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino Wed 15-May-19 09:54:15

Hope the meeting goes well. Huge thanks to Posie for arranging it.

happydappy2 Wed 15-May-19 09:58:28

Have asked my MP to attend this....suspect her diary already busy though. It seemed quite short notice-hope they get a good turn out.

Redshoeblueshoe Wed 15-May-19 10:02:18

I too hope this goes well

Genderfreelass Wed 15-May-19 10:06:59

Thanks R0wan

LangCleg Wed 15-May-19 10:09:54

Also asked my MP to attend.

MrsJamin Wed 15-May-19 10:13:59

Wow this is important. Pullllll

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 10:25:14

Excellent article by Transgender Trend outlines the very serious wider implications of Duty of Care, Safeguarding & Child Protection in an important recent case:

'Parents who Socially Transitioned Two Young Children Win Court Battle'
May 14, 2019
"A High Court judge has granted permission to a local authority to withdraw care proceedings against a foster family with two young boys socially transitioned as girls. The full judgment can be seen here.
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2019/30.html

Concludes:
We are left with the question of who selected this particular “expert” to present evidence, and to reflect on how easy it is to sweep aside all normal safeguarding and child protection concerns when the issue is ‘transgender,’ with evidence that would not stand up in any other circumstances. Likewise, behaviour from parents which would arouse suspicion in any other case, is transformed into ‘best practice’ uniquely in the case of ‘transgender children.’

Safeguarding and child protection was an issue highlighted by the Tavistock clinicians who spoke anonymously to David Bell, and was reflected, albeit in a watered-down version, in the recently published Tavistock GIDS Action Plan:

14. I recommend that the trust is unequivocal in holding the position that simply bringing a child to the service for exploration of gender dysphoria does not constitute a safeguarding issue. However, it is reasonable to acknowledge that this can often be a complex population with presentations that can require the need for further deep exploration.

One of the clinicians who resigned from the Tavistock for ethical reasons gave us this comment:

“In my experience, whenever a case got too close to child protection issues, I was just advised to step back and let the local teams take over – i.e. to offer no advice either way. We weren’t supposed to offer an opinion on whether the gender identity might be related to child protection issues, even when it very clearly was.”

This family court decision sets a dangerous precedent. There must be no area of childcare handed over to ideologues, no approach which casts aside established knowledge of child development and psychology, and no treatment of children given a free pass because in this one area we have decided that normal rules do not apply. No child should be placed outside normal safeguarding and duty of care. Put simply, this judgment creates a loophole and puts vulnerable children at risk.

www.transgendertrend.com/parents-socially-transitioned-two-young-children-win-court-battle/

BeUpStanding Wed 15-May-19 10:26:07

Really important meeting. It would be brilliant if we get some feedback from the meeting. Does anyone know if minutes get produced for closed sessions?

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 10:46:59

*"The Spread of an ideology and the targeting of children in UK schools"
Stephanie Davies-Arai Author, teacher trainer, parent coach and Founder of Transgender Trend*

Stephanie was shortlisted for the John Maddox Prize 2018 for standing up for science in the face of difficulty or hostility.

www.transgendertrend.com/

recent threads: OP Enterthewolves "Helen from Transgendertrend has done a brilliant assessment of the Allsort’s Trans School Toolkit (the one they says girls who don’t want to share changing rooms with boys should be educated...). It is the Toolkit that has formed the basis of many versions all over the country."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582327-Trans-School-Toolkit-brilliant-assessment

Shelley Charlesworth investigation, "No Outsiders : Queering the Primary Classroom"
OP LesbianMeansSomething "I thought I couldn't be shocked anymore (No Outsiders programme)"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3567446-I-thought-I-couldnt-be-shocked-anymore-No-Outsiders-programme

Assoc Professor Michael Biggs investigation:
OP Pimmsnlemonade posted:
"Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

"To summarize, GIDS launched a study to administer experimental drugs to children suffering from gender dysphoria. Between 2010 and 2014, puberty blockers were given to 50 children. This study yielded only one published scientific article on outcomes. It showed no evidence for the effectiveness of GnRHa: there was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug regime to several hundred children aged under 16. Almost five years after the last patient was enrolled in the experiment, there is no evidence to substantiate Carmichael’s claim ‘that the results thus far have been positive’."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3525450-Tavistock-s-Experimentation-with-Puberty-Blockers-Scrutinizing-the-Evidence

theOtherPamAyres Wed 15-May-19 10:59:10

Women & Equalities Dept have demonstrated a failure to recognise and prioritise Safeguarding & Duty of Care responsibilities towards children & vulnerable adults.

To reinforce what Rowan says.

This morning (15/05/2019) the Women and Equalities Parliamentary Committee is taking evidence from an LGBTQ charity, Mind Out, and the need to prioritise speeding up referrals to Gender Identity Clinics.

There's not much probing or questioning going on - just acceptance of the word of a lobby group by inexpert MPs with the power to put pressure on government.

twitter.com/Commonswomequ/status/1128593628610351105

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 11:14:29

Labour Party attempts to prevent such an important meeting to raise & discuss the serious Safeguarding, Duty of Care & Child Protection concerns of health care professionals evident here:

(extract)
"The Times understands that Lord Moonie had already received a warning from the chief whip in the Lords for inviting the controversial campaign group Standing for Women to host an event in parliament, but it was his social media activity which led to his suspension"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suspended-labour-peer-lord-moonie-quits-in-transphobic-tweets-row-8jrtwdbll?shareToken=9db663ea46a07ca3765ccba59339fba7&wgu=270525_54264_15579148965004_83e5a73fa4&wgexpiry=1565690896&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 11:20:43

This morning (15/05/2019) the Women and Equalities Parliamentary Committee is taking evidence from an LGBTQ charity, Mind Out, and the need to prioritise speeding up referrals to Gender Identity Clinics.

cf whistle blown concerns reported The Times February 2019:

'Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children as activists pile on pressure'
(extract)
England’s only NHS gender clinic for children is exposing young patients to “long-term damage” because of its “inability to stand up to the pressure” from “highly politicised” campaigners and families demanding fast-track gender transition, some of its own doctors say.

The Gender Identity Development Service (Gids), part of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust in north London, is providing “woefully inadequate” care, according to a report by a senior clinician and former governor of the trust. Some staff have “very serious ethical concerns” about children making life-changing decisions with “inadequate” examination and consent.

The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust." (continues)

In other cases, uncomfortable feelings that are normal for adolescents are being “relabelled as to do with wishing to change gender, a position . . . which the service is unable to challenge”. Gids has “close relationships with organisations that are identified as part of the pro-trans lobby such as Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids, and [went] to some lengths to placate them,” the report says.

Gids sources pointed out that Mermaids, a charity that campaigns for children to be given sex-change treatment, has been critical of the service, falsely claiming that its refusal to treat children more quickly leads many to attempt suicide." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9?shareToken=14ca44214d620680c9d1898b96492582&wgu=270525_54264_15579087068262_c3d487a698&wgexpiry=1565684706&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 11:29:09

There's not much probing or questioning going on - just acceptance of the word of a lobby group by inexpert MPs with the power to put pressure on government.

see Professor Kathleen Stock's analysis of very serious failings by Women & Equalities headed by Maria Miller MP in the 'Transgender Equality Inquiry' 2015-16 which has informed much public sector & government policy since it was published:

(extract)
"I take it that the selection of advisors on a particular issue should follow four basic and commonsensical principles:

· All groups affected should be represented

· Advisors should have relevant expertise, and should advise only on areas where they have expertise.

· Advisors shouldn’t have backgrounds which undermine their credibility.

· Advisors should, where possible, appeal to independently verified evidence to back up their views.

For an example where these four principles were not put into practice, I’d like to look at the select committee report from the Transgender Equality inquiry, which came out in January 2016." (continues)

medium.com/**@kathleenstock**/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3391330-Prof-Kathleen-Stock-WPUK-speech-at-House-of-Lords-Important-disection-of-the-key-issues-for-MPs-policy-makers-etc-with-ref-to-The-Trans-Equality-Report

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/390.pdf

Ali1cedowntherabbithole Wed 15-May-19 14:19:05

Looking forward to hearing the outcomes of this. The speakers are excellent.

Hoping too that it is widely reported.

DeployTheTut Wed 15-May-19 14:24:44

This is really significant, and exactly the kind of strategic and deliberate action we’ve come to expect from Posie and Venice.

I emailed my MP about this, but he can’t go. I think we can only really apply pressure to our own MPs, not anyone else’s, right?

Can’t wait to find out what happened.

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 15:04:54

This is really significant, and exactly the kind of strategic and deliberate action we’ve come to expect from Posie and Venice.

Also important news this week:

OP OhHolyJesus Mon 13-May-19 wrote:
'Posie not being charged
Posie has just done a live video, she's not being charged but only as they ran out of time to charge her for public order.

The police were going to pursue it in the name of public interest (sounds like SG dropped the charges but the police decided to pursue regardless).

Worth watching to get the full story."

thead: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3584889-posie-not-being-charged

www.facebook.com/theposieparker/videos/2525787707541194?s=100011890683843&sfns=xmwa

R0wantrees Wed 15-May-19 15:31:35

worth following:

twitter.com/WNTTgra/status/1128664013242544128

Twitter #transethics

Join the discussion

Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Get started »