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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Important Standing For Women House of Lords Meeting today, "First Do No Harm - The ethics of transgender healthcare" hosted Lord Moonie, focus on the Duty of Care

94 replies

R0wantrees · 15/05/2019 09:20

"Standing For Women is pleased to announce our meeting at the House of Lords, hosted by Dr Lord Moonie entitled "First Do No Harm : The ethics of transgender healthcare."
3.30 - 5pm 15th May 2019, House of Lords Committee Room 2A.

Our talks are:

"Towards compassionate science based medicine/care for gender questioning individuals."
Richard Byng GP and Professor of primary care medicine at the University of Plymouth

"Freedom to think: the need for thorough assessment in gender dysphoria"
Marcus Evans Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, Member British Psychoanalytical Society and The Institute of Psychoanalysis

"Medical Harms of Gender Affirmative Therapy"
Michael K. Laidlaw, MD. Endocrinologist

"An Urgent Call to Action to Protect Young People and End Experimental Identity Medicine"
Leila Leoncavallo Kelsey Coalition consultant

"The Spread of an ideology and the targeting of children in UK schools"
Stephanie Davies-Arai Author, teacher trainer, parent coach and Founder of Transgender Trend

followed by a Q & A lead by Dr Lord Lewis Moonie

relevent theads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3586026-Lewis-Moonie-has-resigned-from-the-Labour-party-shock

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583824-Let-your-MP-know-about-this-asap

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583675-Foster-children-3-and-7-transitioning-Times-article

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582478-Judge-over-rules-social-services-concerns

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553935-Times-article-calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

Important Standing For Women  House of Lords Meeting today, "First Do No Harm - The ethics of transgender healthcare" hosted Lord Moonie, focus on the Duty of Care
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R0wantrees · 15/05/2019 19:20

Harry the Owl tweeted updates from the meeting: twitter.com/HarryTheOwl

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ChattyLion · 15/05/2019 19:46

Great to have the tweets from the event. Truth and light!
Would love to know approx how many MPs made it but understand if they can’t say.

ThePurportedDoctoress · 15/05/2019 20:05

Thanks R0.

Harry tweets:
Marcus Evans, formerly of Tavistock, speaking about grave ethical concerns re the fast-tracking of children to transitioning. He speaks of subtle and unsubtle attempts by trustees to undermine Dr Bell’s review.

Dr Bell states that when ‘gender’ is within a mix of multiple pathologies, the tendency is to focus on the ‘gender’ aspect, at the expense of all other possible factors. This is because ‘gender identity’ is promoted as an easy fix.

Observer article on Evans' resignation:
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos

"The service has been struggling to contain the fallout from an internal report by Dr David Bell, written in his capacity as then staff governor, which warned that “the GIDS service as it now functions [is] not fit for purpose and children’s ends are being met in a woeful, inadequate manner and some will live on with the damaging consequences”.

In his report, which was submitted to the trust’s board earlier this month and whose findings were first reported in the Observer last year, Bell expressed concern that the service was failing to fully consider psychological and social factors in a young person’s background – such as whether they had been abused, suffered a bereavement or had autism – which might influence their decision to transition. Such views are dismissed by many transgender rights activists who believe they play little, if any, part in a person’s desire to transition.

According to the trust, a review of Bell’s claims by its medical director, Dr Dinesh Sinha, “did not identify any immediate issues in relation to patient safety or failings in the overall approach taken by the service in responding to the needs of young people and families who access its support. As in any review of this nature, it did identify areas for improvement and made several recommendations. The trust’s chief executive is tasked with developing an action plan for how these will be implemented.”

The trust’s 15 governors, who hold its board to account, last week gave their support for it to act on the recommendations. But Evans, a psychoanalyst, subsequently resigned.

“In my 40 years of experience in psychiatry, I have learned that dismissing serious concerns about a service or approach is often driven by a defensive wish to prevent painful examination of an ‘overvalued system’,” he complained in his resignation email.

He added: “I do not believe we understand what is going on in this complex area and the need to adopt an attitude which examines things from different points of view is essential. This is difficult in the current environment as the debate and discussion required is continually being closed down or effectively described as ‘transphobic’ or in some way prejudicial.”

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 15/05/2019 20:12

Amazing event. Would love to know who went.

JackyHolyoake · 15/05/2019 20:13

There's not much probing or questioning going on - just acceptance of the word of a lobby group by inexpert MPs with the power to put pressure on government.

You can watch the recording of the WESC oral evidence session here:

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/56925c05-f473-46c2-8f16-4d8cecf656b7

ThePurportedDoctoress · 15/05/2019 20:26

I watched the WESC session earlier and thought the discussion was very superficial. The MPs didn't seem to be up to speed at all, and they mostly just asked "what can we do". Very poor. One of the people giving evidence praised Gendered Intelligence, and everyone just nodded.

Genderfreelass · 15/05/2019 21:18

Harry's tweets are great. Anyone any idea on numbers that attended and the response? Sounds like the photos of an FTM were pretty hard hitting, seeing rather than hearing can make things sink in.

SisterWendyBuckett · 15/05/2019 21:22

Harry's tweets, from the experts who really know, absolutely summarise the issues.

ThePurportedDoctoress · 15/05/2019 22:23

Harry's tweets, from the experts who really know, absolutely summarise the issues.

They really do. And to think that the Labour chief whip tried to bully Moonie into cancelling this important meeting. It's despicable.

RedToothBrush · 16/05/2019 00:29

The summary of the event is staggering. The extent to which medical ethical has descended into oblivion and a 'customer is always right' mentality is appalling. Its frightening to think about what is already doing harm and what harm we don't yet know about in many fields if the principles of medical ethics has descended this far.

Modern day ethics largely stem from the 'human rights era' which started post war.

There is much to say this is all on the very brink of collapse and extremely fragile.

No one is fighting for the preservation, promotion and integrity of universal human rights at.

Instead we have identity politics which completely undermine their principles by creating a hierarchy of rights.

It's desparate.

What we are sleep waking into is horrible to think about.

It is not just trans medicine. It's across medicine.

It doesn't surprise me that Moonie has the stance he has, with the career he has. It would be more troubling if he didn't.

R0wantrees · 16/05/2019 00:37

This really is a very significant event. Massive kudos to Posie and Venice for pulling this off.

Absolutely this ^^

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ChattyLion · 16/05/2019 08:19

I agree on the failure of medical ethics to protect children from this scandalous treatment. It is profoundly disturbing. What will happen when this scandal really takes hold in the public imagination?

R0wantrees · 16/05/2019 10:47

The summary of the event is staggering. The extent to which medical ethical has descended into oblivion and a 'customer is always right' mentality is appalling. Its frightening to think about what is already doing harm and what harm we don't yet know about in many fields if the principles of medical ethics has descended this far.

YY I read his article recently from last year. Many recognisable emergent parallels:

metro.co.uk/2018/10/11/living-with-body-integrity-identity-disorder-a-condition-that-convinces-sufferers-to-amputate-their-own-limbs-8023938/

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2019 11:09

Apparently only one MP went Sad

R0wantrees · 16/05/2019 11:27

David Davies MP

Andrew Gillingham from The Times was also there.

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MangoesAreMyFavourite · 16/05/2019 11:30

Oh no ItsAllGoingToBeFine That's too bad!

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 16/05/2019 11:31

Is there a summary, recording or write up that we could send to our MPs?

R0wantrees · 16/05/2019 11:35

Ive just read that the speeches are going to be published & the brochure may be available to send to MPs.

(Lewis Moonie/Venice/Posie's FB pages)

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ChattyLion · 16/05/2019 11:37

I’m totally gutted about the one MP only that is appalling. Did a reasonable number of Peers make it there?

Callmejudith · 16/05/2019 11:39

The summary is absolutely terrifying. Thank you Harry for tweeting

crsacre · 16/05/2019 11:45

The only other peer to attend was Baroness Grey-Thompson, who is concerned about women's sports.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanni_Grey-Thompson

Jux · 16/05/2019 12:04

So the meeting was not well-attended? I thought HarrytheOwl said the room was filling up? Who with?

Jux · 16/05/2019 12:06

My MP wasn't there Sad

He doesn't even reply to me any more. He's a Tory front bencher. Guess who won't be getting my vote (actually, he's never had it).

Genderfreelass · 16/05/2019 12:32

ONE MP! That is disgusting Angry

How many were at the trans lobby talk in the morning sitting like fucking nodding dogs to load of unscientific Bollocks based on ideology instead of medicine?

Any MPs that read this - you are a bunch of useless nodding dogs - not real dogs as that would be an insult to the dogs!

ThePurportedDoctoress · 16/05/2019 12:49

Apparently only one MP went

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest. At the moment people are so concerned about offending the likes of Aimee Challenor that they don't even want to hear the concerns of parents and professionals who are seeing first hand the harm being done to kids. Nobody wants to hear about double mastectomies or the impacts of hormones, or young lesbians taking the trans route as a shield against lesbophobia. It's easier to dismiss people as bigots and carry on pretending that trans is just a cool identity thing that doesn't have tragic real-world consequences.