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Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence

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Pimmsnlemonade Tue 05-Mar-19 22:51:43

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

"To summarize, GIDS launched a study to administer experimental drugs to children suffering from gender dysphoria. Between 2010 and 2014, puberty blockers were given to 50 children. This study yielded only one published scientific article on outcomes. It showed no evidence for the effectiveness of GnRHa: there was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug regime to several hundred children aged under 16. Almost five years after the last patient was enrolled in the experiment, there is no evidence to substantiate Carmichael’s claim ‘that the results thus far have been positive’."

Fallingirl Tue 05-Mar-19 22:54:28

This is the moment we stop talking about ‘when’ this scandal blows up. It is here. Now.

Badgerthebodger Tue 05-Mar-19 23:17:09

All I can ask, in utter disbelief and mounting horror, is how the fuck have they got away with experimenting on children? In plain sight. Just sickening

GnRHa
A substance that keeps the testicles and ovaries from making sex hormones by blocking other hormones that are needed to make them. In men, GnRHas cause the testicles to stop making testosterone. In women, they cause the ovaries to stop making estrogen and progesterone

LangCleg Tue 05-Mar-19 23:18:24

This is... I don't have the words.

Lumene Tue 05-Mar-19 23:18:29

Fuck.

StephsCaddy Tue 05-Mar-19 23:21:32

This is just unbelievable.

adultFemaleElf Tue 05-Mar-19 23:21:54

Heads need to roll

Popchyk Tue 05-Mar-19 23:28:29

This is absolutely shocking.

And this.

"However, GIDS apparently failed to collect any data on its experimental subjects after they turned 18. In a startling admission, Carmichael and coauthors blame ‘the frequent change in nominal and legal identity, including NHS number in those referred on to adult services’—‘to date they have not been able to be followed up’ (Butler et al. 2018). (Transgender activists successfully lobbied the NHS to provide new numbers to patients as well as to change the ‘gender’ on their medical records.)"

They lose track of all the kids that come through their system once the children hit 18. They collect no follow-up data at all.

This ties in with what Marcus Evans (former governor of the Tavistock who resigned recently) has been saying.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6762379/Former-governor-says-fears-hurrying-children-transgender-path.html

"Considering the lack of clinical evidence for the drugs used, one might question why the national service (which has been going for 30 years) hasn’t yet undertaken a research study or even collected basic follow-up outcome data?"

silentcrow Tue 05-Mar-19 23:29:28

Horrifying. Just appalling on so many counts. These kids will mostly be in their early twenties now and I bet none of them are in a position to afford legal help.

It makes me wonder what the hell else is going on with no oversight.

HawkeyeInConfusion Tue 05-Mar-19 23:32:40

shock

I have no words....

RepealTheGRA Tue 05-Mar-19 23:33:41

It makes me wonder what the hell else is going on with no oversight

Doesn’t it sad

SoloClarinet Tue 05-Mar-19 23:43:40

I really hope this gets picked up by the mainstream media. It is INSANE that there is no follow up when the kids leave the service at 18.

RepealTheGRA Tue 05-Mar-19 23:47:57

Who hasn’t asked a question on the Penny webchat yet, who’d like to hear her thoughts on this one angry

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent Tue 05-Mar-19 23:50:16

I’m stunned that transitioners get a new NHS number. Does the data from the old number get transferred? Do they get a shiny new record?

Cloven Tue 05-Mar-19 23:57:54

oh god, so they already had evidence this protocol is harmful and they covered it up. FUCK.

Well, it was obvious that it's harmful. But I thought it would take a few more years of child experimentation before anyone would ever be willing to admit it. I can't believe the evidence was all there already, just papered over.

What's extra horrifying is that the negative effects are all psychological.

It looks like those kids might not even be even experiencing drug side effects, they could simply be experiencing negative outcomes from being locked into a damaging identity which they would otherwise have grown out of. Any physical damage from the puberty blockers hasn't hit them yet, all of that's in the post and already the outcomes are bad. (And what about cognitive outcomes? Were those even tested?)

Also that level of loss to follow up is crazy. I suspect TRAs will latch onto the fact that many subjects dropped out and use it to obfuscate this analysis as much as possible; I've seen their amazing success in confusing people about that Swedish study.

OldCrone Wed 06-Mar-19 00:00:01

They lose track of all the kids that come through their system once the children hit 18. They collect no follow-up data at all.

Is this deliberate? Anyone who is on hormone treatment is still in the system, so how do they manage to lose track of them all?

nettie434 Wed 06-Mar-19 00:03:25

After the Panorama programme last week, there was some discussion about the Tavistock getting new funding for a big follow up study. Really, if they can’t follow up 50 people properly, how will they manage a large scale study? They wouldn’t need NHS numbers etc if they asked for consent to keep in touch to ask people if they would be willing to take part in further rounds of data collection.

Datun Wed 06-Mar-19 00:05:06

In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug

Why though? Why roll it out when it's not helpful? I don't get it.

Angryresister Wed 06-Mar-19 00:13:50

This is precisely the danger in not only giving harmful drugs to children but of swallowing the trans demands. A terrible outcome for those children ,now young people.

Cloven Wed 06-Mar-19 00:22:06

Natal girls showed a significant increase in behavioural and emotional problems’, according to their parents (also from the Child Behavior Checklist, contradicting the only positive result

Of course, the “contradiction” isn’t necessarily contradictory. The negative outcome was for girls, the positive result they reported was for the whole group.

Just in case anyone wants to ponder the implications of that and get even angrier.

(Also it sounds like they measured a lot of outcomes so did they control for multiple comparisons to get even that one positive result?)

Lefthanddown Wed 06-Mar-19 00:22:59

This gets more fucked up on a daily basis. Those poor kids caught up in this abuse.

I wonder how much of this report was buried and unknown within and outside of GIDS and the NHS , because I cannot believe that TG are the first to discover this info, even if they are the first to bring the results out into the daylight. If there is one report showing questionable data, there are no doubt others. How many institutions globally are involved in covering up the problems, and is this linked to the push to introduce CSH at an earlier age?

Bluebellbike Wed 06-Mar-19 00:26:20

My child (now adult) transitioned several years ago but did not get a new NHS number. It is not automatic.

Cloven Wed 06-Mar-19 00:35:30

(It looks like they didn’t but then the negative outcomes are also not controlled for multiple comparisons. The evidence of negative outcomes is still far stronger than any evidence of positive outcomes.)

crsacre Wed 06-Mar-19 00:39:34

When a patient requests a gender reassignment of either type, the patient's GP or Primary Care Trust must write to the Personal Demographics Service (PDS) National Back Office. The case will then be managed by them.

The National Back Office creates a new identity with a new NHS Number and requests the records held by the patient's GP. These records are then transferred to the new identity and forwarded to the new GP.

The old NHS Number is withdrawn so that it can no longer be used. Questions on the process should be referred to the patient's Primary Care Trust.

www.wessexlmcs.com/transgenderpatientsgenderreassignment

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