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'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

(332 Posts)
pisacake Tue 06-Feb-18 03:16:52

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.
2. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential
transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or
around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic
language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members,
customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

Mylady Tue 06-Feb-18 03:24:14

You need to put this on Aibu or chat

OnTheList Tue 06-Feb-18 04:02:00

Sounds about right. Everything to accomodate trans identified males. I note the 'you must kick out any women who objects to a bloke helicoptering his dick' part too. Or that may aswell be what it says.

Hidingtonothing Tue 06-Feb-18 04:45:31

Makes me want to scream with frustration angry I don't post much on this board but read everything, feel like I've opened Pandora's box and would be probably be happier (for now at least) if I was still in blissful ignorance but I'm more afraid for women by the day. I have a daughter so have no choice but to stay engaged but the cowardly side of me wishes I didn't have to.

AngryAttackKittens Tue 06-Feb-18 04:52:28

*You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.*

Biggest pile of dishonest, manipulative bullshit I've ever read. "Education work" = try brainwashing first, if that doesn't work then bully them into submission. "looks to have different physical characteristics" = does have different physical characteristics, including the voice, so you don't even have to see the person to know what sex they are. "This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged." - this is not safe to do any kind of exertion in, but hey, if your customers can't breathe that's not your problem, right?

Also breasts are shocking and must be covered at all times, but cocks are acceptable anywhere the cock haver would like to display them.

MrsJoshDun Tue 06-Feb-18 06:14:05

But surely a trans man who wants to swim topless has male breasts? So why should he have to cover them up? It’s not his fault his breasts are a bit larger than the other men’s! They don’t have to cover their nipples! hmm

NaturalWoman Tue 06-Feb-18 06:19:54

*This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."*

But, but, but...

If transwomen are women [they're not] and their fully working peens are welcome to swing about the changing room unnoticed and we just to have to be educated into accepting that some 'women' might have bodies we more commonly associate with Men (because they're male), then surely transmen are men and their breasts are equally free to swing about and people will just have to accept that their physical bodies don't match up with their internal identify feelz.

And why the misgendering..? transmen are men, not women, their breasts are irrelevant.

And trans specific session? How dare they! How transphobic. #TWAW...

Fucking ridiculous.

CanIBuffalo Tue 06-Feb-18 06:22:12

To be fair, there are a lot of men men who have bigger tits than me in the pool. What about making them cover up?

pisacake Tue 06-Feb-18 06:22:29

Yeah I don't understand that at all, this 'transman' has her tits out in the paper:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5324401/Trans-man-reveals-girlfriend-heterosexual-him.html

I'm sure the Daily Mail would pixellate a woman's breasts.

Also a man with gynaecomastia might be hard to distinguish from a transman who hasn't had a double mastectomy.

ridiculoussingle Tue 06-Feb-18 06:25:13

We need to tweet them to tell them how transphobic their article is, comparing a tif breasts to a woman's breasts. They are make breasts, how violent of them them to compare them to female breasts. Seriously I'm going to complain. Only by making men uncomfortable are we going to get anywhere...

Nousernameforme Tue 06-Feb-18 06:30:24

To be fair it's no tits and dicks in the pool as standard. The only new thing is now tits and vulvas in the men's room and dicks in the ladies.

Honestly I can see the men kicking up a fuss about this as well. Either that or a tif getting attacked.

I do wonder if there will be some changes to the swim suit rules once some 6' bloke comes in in a two piece with his veg squeezing out the side. I wonder if they will single out tims or make it a rule for women

pisacake Tue 06-Feb-18 06:36:55

"Honestly I can see the men kicking up a fuss about this as well. Either that or a tif getting attacked. "

This happened in a shelter, her degree of denial was quite sad.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4978220/Transgender-man-speaks-serial-sex-attacker-jailed.html

Broken11Girl Tue 06-Feb-18 06:42:06

Total double standards, as everyone said.

ridiculoussingle Tue 06-Feb-18 06:46:59

Can we organise a mass swim? Let's all self id as male and go to the mens only pool in hampstead heath.

ChemistryGeek Tue 06-Feb-18 07:16:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NaturalWoman Tue 06-Feb-18 07:19:57

And me. Not sure I could make it to Hampstead Heath but I'd love for it to happen.

And even if they suspected exactly what was going on, there's nothing they could say about it because 'transphobia'.

ShotsFired Tue 06-Feb-18 07:55:17

"You may need to do some education work..."

Yeah because "(re-)education" is never a sinister approach.... hmm angry

Thehairthebod Tue 06-Feb-18 08:09:13

To be fair the bit about TIFs covering their breasts applies to the actual swimming pool, and TIMs arent allowed to swing their Willies around in the pool either. Presumably in the change rooms you can get your lady dick and man breasts out freely in the ladies and gents room? So it's not all that double standards.

But yes, women who are uncomfortable with seeing peen after the 10:30am public swim session apparently need 'educating'. That wording is kind of chilling actually.

Mrsmiguelcervantes Tue 06-Feb-18 08:10:17

I find the wording about educating women to not mind surprise penis utterly chilling.

NaturalWoman Tue 06-Feb-18 08:10:43

But if TWAW then TMAM, which means that they are men and those are men breasts.

As we already know, any mention of female biology is transphobic.

MrsJoshDun Tue 06-Feb-18 08:10:46

But cis men can have their breasts out. Totally transphobic to say a TIF can't do the same.

Thehairthebod Tue 06-Feb-18 08:12:25

Yes, I suppose it is 'transphobic' because they are 'the same' as a man's chest.

Or something...

NaturalWoman Tue 06-Feb-18 08:18:53

I wonder what would happen if a TM was told to cover their breasts and they shouted in the pool employees face

"I AM A MAN. Stop misgendering me with your transphobic cis privilege!"

Alwaysinmyheart Tue 06-Feb-18 08:28:02

Well this is a recipe for fucking disaster, isn't it??

If this new self ID law goes through, there will literally be NO spaces that are women only ever again...angry

Mrsmiguelcervantes Tue 06-Feb-18 08:32:22

There will be maternity wards. The one service they can’t ID into.

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