'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

[pisacake]

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.

1. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential

transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members, customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

Dicks can do harm. Breasts cannot do harm. Or did I miss something?

This is what happened when these rules were implemented in Washington state in US:
www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/man-in-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/281-65533111

Employees report that the man made no verbal or physical attempt to identify as a woman, yet he still cited a new rule that allows bathroom choice based on gender identification.

Right now, there's no specific protocol for how someone should demonstrate their gender in order to access a bathroom. Employees just rely on verbal identification or physical appearance, and this man offered neither.

It's not illegal for women to be topless in public in the UK. Nor is it in any way "threatening". Just the same old discrimination wrapped up in different terms.

Boobs aren't even offensive. no one has ever assaulted with a boob.

Men regularly get their size C cups out and no one expects them to cover up but because a man might get a hardon staring at a "transman" they need to cover up.

Dicks are fine though

Agree Misscockerspaniel.

Oh this is just vile, illogical, uncritical bullshit. I could weep.

Have I got this right?

MTF can freely change in female changing rooms because their bodies, despite having male genitalia, are irrelevant to their gender identity.

FTM must cover up their female body parts because women do not, by convention, reveal such parts.

So therefore MTF are not male when it comes to their body parts, but FTM remain female when it comes to theirs?

Right oh. Fuck that.

Also, nice work suggesting trans swimmers can use the disabled changing rooms. Their feels-needs come before accessibility, obviously.

Any one up for a campaign?

Absolutely.

So exposing a penis to little girls in changing rokms/ communal showers is absolutely fine? Yes, up for a campaign.

The thing is I'm okay with my dd seeing some dicks in the men's changing room. But from what I know about autogynephilia I think the ones in the women's are going to be all excited and I'm far from fucking ok with that.

I think what will happen where I live is that if the female only sessions let people with dicks in (my laptop won't let me use the p word !) then women will just stop going.

Sport England has statutory safeguarding obligations in law.

They have partnered with the NSPCC to ensure these are carried out as you can see here:

www.sportengland.org/our-work/national-partners/child-protection-in-sport-unit/

You can contact the NSPCC unit that does this for them here:

thecpsu.org.uk/contact-us/

I've complained via the form.

Daily Mail picked it up. I think some one here emailed them?

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5357509/Swim-England-guidance-trans-swimmers-slammed.html

How on earth does this sit alongside safeguarding? Why should young girls be exposed to male genitalia in the women's changing rooms?

Do mtf need to cover their breasts in the pool?

43percentburnt Its so confusing I couldn't be sure, but I think man boobs dont need a bikini top or binder, but trans boobs do.
But a lady dick doesnt, if its in the changing room.

Note that the Swim England pamphlet refers copiously to Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence. I suspect they were very influential in drafting this new policy.

Stonewall has annual income of £7 million; Gendered Intelligence has £230k--including £116k from Children in Need.

Well I hope Children in need will be picking up the bill for all the kids who are being screwed over by this

Swim_England tweeted: Like to know more about how female athletes training needs differ from their male counterparts?

^Sign up to attend our Sports Science and Medicine Conference in March 2018: bit.ly/2nn6OJG^

And British Swimming say in their equality and diversity page that "We believe that sport is about fairness and equality, respect and dignity. Sport teaches individuals how to strive and succeed, how to cope with success and disappointment and brings together people with a common goal"

Like to know more about how female athletes training needs differ from their male counterparts?

Surely they are just trolling, for some random reason here. they cannot be this dense. Even if it is a kid running the twitter account they have to see this...

Thank you UpstartCrow, it is very confusing. So logically is it:

A) the size of breasts that are offensive or,

B) is it the fact the breasts are on a woman the fact that makes them offensive?

If it is A) then surely all people, regardless of sex should be forced to cover us over a certain cup size.

Or B) all people identifying as Women should be forced to cover up regardless of size.

Cover up not us

Whatever the size they are only boobs if on a biological female, who identifies as a trans man, or who is a woman

I might have to design a board game around this.