'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

[pisacake]

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.

1. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential

transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members, customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

Until a few months ago, it hadn't even occurred to me that a transwoman would have, or want to keep a penis.

Yes, I think this is where a lot of the disconnect comes into it all. The general public think 'transwoman' refers to a post op transsexual person. Or at the very very least, someone who has been diagnosed with sex dysphoria and is taking steps to 'become a woman'. So it seems feminists are being big meanies by 'picking on' these people who have a mental illness that makes their life pretty hard to start with.

Ontop of this, people really do not seem to understand what 'self ID' is. At all. Once you point out to them that it means their husband/ex/male friend/the guy who rubbed his hardon on them on the train last week/whatever could literally decide tomorrow that he is a woman and be able to go in womens changing rooms, well, they tend to click on to the issues then.

Blimey, craigy. For someone who doesn't want attention from women you're trying awfully hard to get it!

Surely pools need safeguarding policies in place for children?

They might not give a fuck about women, but do they really think it's ok and a safe policy for my 6yo dd to get naked next to a penis in the women/girls changing room?

This must be in breach of their duty to her?

Or is that all on me too?

I would be genuinely interested in what craigy said ....

Clitterati yes they are in desperate need of safeguarding policies. The swim England guidelines say that anyone trans should be able to use whichever changing rooms they like. Their definition of trans is explicitly not transsexuals and is hugely wide (see attached). Their definition of transphobic is 'fear or dislike' of someone who identifies as trans.

So according to them if your daughter is afraid of any man who decides he falls into these guidelines and therefore wants to use the women and girls changing rooms she is transphobic. And needs educated.

Any set of guidelines that leads to the above conclusion is not an appropriate policy for safeguarding young girls or women.

Not just transsexuals

agggh but just look at who runs that site re Target. Anti-abortion 'christian family values' etc. Will always be used against us. Can we find that info on a less horrible site?

Please let this not be the future

Fucks sake

What is actually wrong with the world

Ibi-pippi can barely conceal the smirk

mimi

I cant say what i think about ibi

Rufus

very unseemly words/phrases at a guess

mimi

Once i started i doubt i could stop

And i would be deleted

That guy is a wind up. He’s just exposing the reality of self-ID...isn’t he???

That guy is a wind up. He’s just exposing the reality of self-ID...isn’t he???

I think he might be. Could be wrong but he sounds/looks like he's acting.

Info from the US plastic surgeons.
"May 22, 2017 - Of all procedures on transgender men, 95 percent involved the breast or chest and 5 percent on the face. Most transgender people forgo gender reassignment surgery, with only 11 percent of transgender women having had their testicles removed and 12 percent undergoing vaginoplasty,"

I’m sure that ibi guy is taking the piss isn’t he, to make a point. Otherwise why was he wearing a swimsuit?? He said he didn’t feel the need to change his appearance and was wearing ‘male’ clothing, so why not trunks?

Hang on thebewilderness, does that mean 1% of TW still have their testicles AND have a neovagina!?

Actually Betsy now you mention it that does create quite the mental image!

I also saw this from that Paul Dirks guy on Twitter:

There were 4118 SRS surgeries from 2000-14 in US. Numbers way smaller prior. Increasing significantly after. Estimated total= 8000

This cannot be emphasised enough. The population of actual transsexuals is tiny. Really. Not worth even counting.

The number of men who say they are women with, at best, jelly tits, is bloody enormous. Most of these men are heterosexual. This enormous population is what's coming to our private spaces.

86% of guys who claim they are women (TIM - Trans Identified males) keep their genitalia. If that doesn't sound alarm bells I don't know what would.