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VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

(1000 Posts)
churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 07:05:54

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

BetterABird Tue 03-Dec-19 07:33:58

I've only seen a short clip but was about to start a similar thread. I believe her.

ZebrasAreHorsesInPyjamas Tue 03-Dec-19 07:34:58

I haven't been watching it all very closely at all, and have no clue as to who is telling the truth. But to be honest, the only thing that keeps springing to my mind (and maybe this has been covered in the news and I've missed it, in which case I should probably shut up), is where were her parents in all this? Why was she allowed to go to the UK with some bloke? What reason would be good enough to allow your 17 year old daughter to swan off to another country with some middle aged bloke. What am I missing / have I missed?

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 07:35:58

ZebrasAreHorsesInPyjamas

She says she was abused from a young age. She says her life at home was unbearable. I’m not sure she needs to justify it beyond that - it doesn’t change what PA did or didn’t do.

SimonJT Tue 03-Dec-19 07:37:47

I genuinely worry that the TV interviews could damage the chances of a conviction.

If she was brought to the UK there will be records of the flight, this will include names (as stated on passports) of all those on the aeroplane including crew. So if she was brought here they will be able to find evidence.

NotTonightJosepheen Tue 03-Dec-19 07:41:14

His body language and micro-expressions gave him away (to my eyes).
I believe her too.

longearedbat Tue 03-Dec-19 07:41:49

Prince Andrew has personal protection officers afaik. As they accompany him every where in public, surely they could confirm or deny where he was at any given time.

BetterABird Tue 03-Dec-19 07:43:24

If she was brought to the UK there will be records of the flight, this will include names (as stated on passports) of all those on the aeroplane including crew. So if she was brought here they will be able to find evidence.

Really? In which case where is Ghislaine?

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 07:43:38

Personal Protection Officers working for the Royal Family will not confirm or deny anything, in my opinion. And if they did I wouldn’t believe them anyway.

GiveHerHellFromUs Tue 03-Dec-19 07:49:11

I really wanted to believe him until his interview a couple of weeks ago where he just wouldn't answer a question properly and looked guilty as sin.

He knew exactly what he was doing and I believe he was almost definitely involved.

Passthecherrycoke Tue 03-Dec-19 07:52:31

I believed her anyway (why wouldn’t you- older men are taking advantage of young women and girls every day of the week) but unfortunately I don’t think she came across massively well and worry that’s going to swing in Andrews favour with the public sad

Shouldn’t have to think like that but if people didn’t you wouldn’t have started the thread so you know...

Vulpine Tue 03-Dec-19 07:52:47

She must be relieved thenhmm

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 07:54:48

I thought she came across very well.

Passthecherrycoke Tue 03-Dec-19 07:56:15

I don’t believe there is any chance of conviction anyway. My understanding is the the law against having sex with trafficked women was only brought in in 2003, after this happened. As far as we know, criminal charges aren’t even on the table, anywhere in the world

ferrier Tue 03-Dec-19 07:57:24

I believed her anyway (why wouldn’t you- older men are taking advantage of young women and girls every day of the week)

Oh let's do away with innocent until proven guilty eh? hmm

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 07:58:49

I agree, Pass. But if it is true (and I believe it is) his moral culpability is now the issue, for doing this and then lying about it.

AJPTaylor Tue 03-Dec-19 07:59:23

What he did was morally reprehensible. Illegal then? Or now?
Either way it gives an insight to the Royal Family that is utterly damaging

Passthecherrycoke Tue 03-Dec-19 08:00:00

Innocent until proven guilty is a direction given to a jury in a criminal trial. hmm

It has no standing whatsoever on my thoughts in this situation

CodenameVillanelle Tue 03-Dec-19 08:00:19

There is far FAR more chance that a rich, older man raised on entitlement who spends time with proven paedophiles DID abuse a trafficked young woman than that she is lying.
That's just how the world works. We make assessments based on probability all the time - innocent until proven guilty is the standard for conviction in court, not likelihood that something actually happened

GertrudeCB Tue 03-Dec-19 08:01:14

I believe her, PA is lying through his teeth and arrogant enough to think that he is above the law.

CodenameVillanelle Tue 03-Dec-19 08:01:17

How about assuming that VC is 'innocent (of lying) until proven guilty'? Or does the benefit of the doubt only apply to men accused of rape?

ItCouldHaveBeenMeCouldNotHaha Tue 03-Dec-19 08:03:16

I haven't seen either interview. I do have a question though, was this in the UK? Age of consent is 16 isn't it? A 17 year old isn't underage. I am not saying it's morally right at all. Or was she 17 and raped by Prince Andrew when he was older?
Sorry like I said I haven't watched either interview.

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 08:03:19

We don’t have to assume his innocence. We’re not in a jury. It’s a simple question of whether we believe her or not, and everyone is at liberty to say what they think.

churchandstate Tue 03-Dec-19 08:04:18

ItCouldHaveBeenMeCouldNotHaha

On one occasion it was in the UK, and once in New York and once on JE’s island (according to her claims). She was 17.

GertrudeCB Tue 03-Dec-19 08:05:52

was she 17 and raped by Prince Andrew when he was older?
She was coerced, therefore consent could not be given, IMO

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