Do we have a thread for the DC Rachel Fletcher misconduct hearing?

[DoneByTheFuckingRainbowUnit]

I've had a search and I can't find one. She's the chair of Police SEEN, and is up for gross misconduct, for making the following comments in the police station where she was based:

1. all men should be on a curfew
2. see, that wouldn’t have happened if men were on a curfew (in response to a reported rape)
3. all men are rapists
4. I hate men
5. trans women are all cocks in frocks.

The tribunal tweets coverage is here:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/police-misconduct-hearing-dc-fletcher

Ouch.
Speaks to a culture where people are pretty brutal in the way they express themselves. I see her point, but think that similar statements of opposing sentiment would feel very hostile. It was an unwise way to speak.

She has not accepted that these are statements that she said - they are just allegations. Even people called as witnesses have said they do not recall her saying all these things. The investigating officer seemed to be more concerned in addressing her gender critical views and which were lawful.

Another allegation was dropped but still referred to in the hearing: “I’m getting done by the fucking rainbow unit”, which has caused some gaiety on twitter in the follow-ups to this from Nick Wallis
https://nitter.net/nickwallis/status/2082819399782666410

My personal favourite is this one:
https://nitter.net/nickwallis/status/2082934223120244744

Can we start a crowd funder for Nick's first tattoo?

Lol at the ‘fucking rainbow unit’.

Ah, ok thanks. That makes much more sense! I totally agree with her sentiments, but wouldn’t express them like that! Usually

All these seem quite mild to me given the context of a police station. Since when did the police have a reputation for moderate language?

This is a quote from a BBC investigation less than a year ago:

'Serving Metropolitan Police officers called for immigrants to be shot, revelled in the use of force and were dismissive of rape claims in footage captured by a Panorama undercover reporter.
'The evidence of misogyny and racism challenges the Met's promise to have tackled what it calls "toxic behaviours" after the murder of Sarah Everard by a serving police officer.
'Panorama's secret filming shows officers making sexualised comments to colleagues and sharing racist views about immigrants and Muslims.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgq06d44jyo

The idea that DC Fletcher's alleged comments were offensive enough to amount to gross misconduct is absolutely absurd. Police officers spend their days dealing with the most grotesque manifestations of male abuse: rape, sexual assault, domestic abuse, paedophilia. Of course any woman who has to deal with that is going to have strong opinions about male failings, and who can blame her for expressing them robustly?

Here's a thought - why not deal with real harm caused by police officers? The Met alone had the murderer Wayne Couzens and the rapists David Carrick and Cliff Mitchell.

For 14 years, the Scottish police employed Alan Greer, a man who committed multiple instances of rape and attempted murder against women.

And instead of going after these violent sexual abusers, the police go after the woman who is angry about sexual abuser.

What a sick society we live in.

This article is a useful intro:
Northumbria Police detective denies saying 'all men are rapists' and claims curfew comment was a 'joke' | Chronicle Live

There's a big difference between 'all men are rapists' and 'all rapists are men', isn't there?

I see✨ Naomi Cunningham✨ is representing her.
I'm going to catch up on the transcript now - thank you for linking to it, I wasn't aware of this case, and thank you for your username, DoneByTheFuckingRainbowUnit !

No thread - only learnt of this from Tribunal Tweets. Northumbria Police are the ones who had to stop letting officers attend pride events after a judge reminded them they were supposed to be impartial. https://sex-matters.org/case-briefings/lindsey-smith-v-the-chief-constable-of-northumbria-police/

It does look like she was targeted. I think it's quite likely that what she said was all rapists are men and the rest needs to be considered in context of a unit dealing with VAWG.

Is there any way we can show our support for DC Fletcher, eg a fundraiser, or an address to send cards?

Really the only contentious one, if she said it, is "all men are rapists". The curfew comments are obviously tongue in cheek. "I hate men", well which of us hasn't said "ugh, I hate men" at some point, doesn't mean we literally mean it. The trans women comment is true (in the vast majority of cases) even if it's not diplomatically expressed.

None of it really seems grounds for misconduct, given the "robust" culture among many police. Seems like she has been targeted.

Let's remember that when the Lindsey Smith case came to court, the judge said of the chief constable, Vanessa Jardine, that her reasoning “did not provide a rational basis for her decision” and was “outside the range of reasonable decisions open to her.”

In judge-speak, that's tantamount to calling someone a moron. These people are clowns.

How would expressing 'opposing sentiments' work?

Are there cases where women are doing the raping? (Well, no, not under the laws in the UK)

What would be implied if people called for women to be under curfew? I don't think they'd mean that men would be safer, unless it's safer from allegations of offences.

It just doesn't work this way round. If she did say any of these things the context should be taken into account. We all know how much freer our lives would be if men were all safely indoors by 10pm.

I’ve been following this but I can’t work out who put in the complaint. I’m not sure if it stems from the ‘cocks in frocks’ comment which was allegedly said (and denied by the C) following the decision that female PO’s had to search males, or something else. My impression is that they have searched back quite a way to find evidence of comments although no one can remember exact dates, context, exact wording or felt the need to complain at the time.

Cocks in frocks is a quote from the film Priscilla Queen of the Desert. One of the drag queens ( I think Terence stamp character) refers to them as being ‘3 cocks in frocks performing on a rock’. I can’t see where the offence is there. It’s a truism.

It would be the kind of language and behaviour posted by @RoyalCorgi. That kind of empathy bypassing, dehumanising and aggressive language should be tackled regardless of who uses it. It’s a bad culture and better to try and do better.

If that's the case, then not wise, not professional, and she probably doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Also not helpful in SEEN: all too easy to be painted as rabid nastiness when SEEN really needs to be heard and taken seriously for women and gay rights not to be trampled under gender ideology. We're all bloody furious at this point, and it is HARD to have to go on being mealy mouthed and so very very careful when the ideology can be as brutal as it likes to women, but in a professional role it's the job.

I agree that there's no doubt the misogyny going on from male police officers on a daily basis is probably not just on a par but one hell of a lot worse, but that doesn't make any of it ok.

Well I'm torn between defending her to the hilt for saying anything of that nature. The massive double standards infuriate me.

Or agree that she should just deny the lot, whether that's genuine, or expedient.

But in reality, I absolutely bet she said all rapists are men, because we have said that a thousand times on this very site, in response to people saying but what's wrong with this subsection of men??

Plus suggesting men should be under a curfew has also been mooted on this site many, many times, in response to people recommending women don't go out after dark.

Women shouldn't go out after dark to avoid being raped. When in fact, the more sensible suggestion would be stop the rapists going out after dark.

And cocks in frocks is now so hackneyed, I bet she didn't say it.

'I hate men' shouldn't even get a mention, especially considering where she works.

i bet.

Hunt everywhere you can to find something to take this woman down, because she's a thorn in our side.

If Naomi Cunningham's on it, it might well backfire. Let's have all the witnesses to things that the men have said

Tribunal have found against her. Gross misconduct.

Gutted for her. Anyone who understands the issues would understand that all rapists are men. People who don't understand the issue (or those who do but make bad faith arguments) frequently understand / state this to mean that all men are rapists. Anyone who has spent a few days in the trenches of the 'sex / gender debate' knows this. Clearly the panel do not.

Not to mention the bar for 'gross misconduct'. From the government website: "Gross misconduct is behavior so severe that it destroys trust, breaks the employment contract, and allows for immediate dismissal without notice. Key examples include theft, physical violence, and gross negligence"
As Naomi pointed out, even if true, this is on a completely different plane to most examples of 'gross' misconduct.

Oh that's fucking gutting. I hadn't realised it was today.

I hope it gets appealed.

I thought the police famously ditch cases which are based on 'he said/she said' accusations. Most rapes, for example.

I only noticed this yesterday and have read the first half day. It sounded like she had said SOMETHING about men/trans in response to a police policy that trans people can request a search by the opposite sex, unclear whether an officer would be forced to do it.

Obviously not things one should be saying at work, I thought it'd likely to be that she didn't say it but sounds like that's not the way it went.