Do we have a thread for the DC Rachel Fletcher misconduct hearing?

[DoneByTheFuckingRainbowUnit]

I've had a search and I can't find one. She's the chair of Police SEEN, and is up for gross misconduct, for making the following comments in the police station where she was based:

1. all men should be on a curfew
2. see, that wouldn’t have happened if men were on a curfew (in response to a reported rape)
3. all men are rapists
4. I hate men
5. trans women are all cocks in frocks.

The tribunal tweets coverage is here:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/police-misconduct-hearing-dc-fletcher

I should imagine the reason why the rapist quote has been so infuriating for some men is precisely because it was used in answer to refute gender ideology. Which pretends that some men can become women, and are therefore less of a risk.

Another colleague, Detective Sergeant Damon Hall, was apparently offended by Fletcher’s comment that “the only way to stop night-time rapes is to put a 9pm curfew on all men”

What a wanker. It's absolutely the only way. It's a thought experiment. And one which, if implemente, would have 100% success rate.

"It was offensive to me as a male as it presumes that everyone is capable of rape.”

No it doesn't. That's why she said MEN.

It's a linguistic point whether or not all men are capable.

I would say absolutely they're capable, because they have the means. He might agree they have the means but they're not capable because they don't have the mindset. Even though he's demonstrating very effectively that the misogyny required to rape is not confined to rapists.

The fucking nitpicking when the police are responsible for so much sexism, and not averse to a bit of sex crime themselves is disgusting.

She also makes the point that 3 male officers in the Northumberland force were not dismissed "after complaints concerning their handling of sexual offences were upheld, including one who sent sexually explicit messages to a witness in a rape investigation."
Two tier policing indeed.

These double standards infuriate me.

Would there be a case for sex discrimination showing that male police officers get treated more leniently than female ones?

Rachel has taken the force to an employment tribunal, due to be heard next year. Hopefully the lack of evidence in the misconduct hearing and the lack of dismissals in the cases of male officers will persuade the tribunal that is simple sex discrimination.

Yes. Absolutely despicable.

@FellOutTheLoft You’re a very brave lady and I fully support you and hope common sense prevails at the employment tribunal …finally!

How can we contribute to a crowd funder?

Women have been subjected to "informal " curfews, for time immemorial. I was a young woman in West Yorkshire in the early 80’s, we were told, by the police, to stay at home, or only go out in groups. Presumably if we didn't, then we were welcoming the activities of "the ripper".
Back then we also acknowledged that all men benefited from the rapists effects on women, not something that men like to hear now

The whole male curfew thing has been floated in a tongue in cheek, wry way by feminists for decades. There is a serious point. As you say, it’s a reaction to women, the victims of male violence, having to take the precautions. That is unfair to women. No one is saying a male curfew would be fair to men. It’s a talking point.

@JacCritter if you linked to a crowdfund directly the post is autohidden. Ditto some archive sites, though I haven’t seen that in a while.

You can hint to where it is. On MN the talk is “gardening”. Planting a few carrots etc 🥕

I seem to remember reading about Golda Meir saying it.

Yes I was trying to remember her name.

It's on go fund me. If they will allow that. Claire ward and Rachel Fletcher. But may that won't be allowed 😔

I think as long as it isn't linked, it's fine to signpost really obviously.

He is also saying that “everyone” is male (and us females are just non-playable characters).

@FellOutTheLoft good luck with your appeal and ET. It really does feel like double standards.

Wow, yes.

Thank you, I’m sure that’s ok. We can find it with that!

Given the type of work this woman did, one might wonder who, as in what type of person, might benefit from her no longer being in a position to expose this song doing. If you have any sort of belief in conspiracy theories.

🥕 planted. Good luck Rachel.

@FellOutTheLoft I'm sure you will have noticed that the gofundme has increased quite a bit since being discussed on mumsnet. I'm not on X - and would suggest you be very cautious about what you say there - but I've donated. I hope the number of donations is some comfort, you do have support.

It's difficult to comment really on these cases because we dont get to see all the evidence. At an employment tribunal I suspect your best bet may be to go with sex discrimination and showing that Kevin Thompson's statement that if he had made similar comments about women he "would be swiftly dealt with about misogyny" was not actually true because male officers in Northumbria police have not been dismissed for worse breachers. A few public cases elsewhere does not mean that males in Northumbria Police would have been dealt with in such a severe fashion. Also the environment in which you worked - that you were working on cases that show men at their worst.

You were previously required to take performance required improvement - why? If this was because of GC views then it needs to be part of the argument that you were, in fact, being targeted for being GC and were treated unfairly. That Northumbria Police had to be taken to court to stop them unlawfully appearing at Pride needs to be brought up as part of the evidence of a hostile environment.

"Cocks in frocks" was crude but men in dresses IS a gender critical view. You expressed your view badly but still a protected view badly expressed. Again context is important, this was a comment made when you were distressed by a policy subsequently amended as it was illegal and it was claimed objectors would not be penalised for refusing to search. That commitment seems not worth the paper it was on.

Tina Brown when initially asked about the "all men are rapists" comment said she hadnt heard it. She gave a semi plausible explanation of why she "remembered" it after being specifically asked about it by CH but it's a weak point. BC said they felt pressurised into saying something untrue, a useful comment. Anyone else who would be a useful witness?

Damon Hall was offended by the curfew comment but said you laughed after it. He admitted to thinking it was "dark humour".

Put the gofundmetarget up if you can.

I think to a Police Officer that 'all men are rapists' comment is common sense. No-one is above suspicion. Before the courts we may be innocent until proven guilty but scepticism seems a necessary part of carrying out investigations.

Carrots planted.
Good luck with the ET Rachel!