Do we have a thread for the DC Rachel Fletcher misconduct hearing?

[DoneByTheFuckingRainbowUnit]

I've had a search and I can't find one. She's the chair of Police SEEN, and is up for gross misconduct, for making the following comments in the police station where she was based:

1. all men should be on a curfew
2. see, that wouldn’t have happened if men were on a curfew (in response to a reported rape)
3. all men are rapists
4. I hate men
5. trans women are all cocks in frocks.

The tribunal tweets coverage is here:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/police-misconduct-hearing-dc-fletcher

Gofundme seems to be climbing nicely (as climbing plants tend to do in the MN veg plot). I've added a few. Thank you Rachel.

Seeds planted. Thanks, Rachel and best of luck💚💜

She says she didn't say it. Presumably someone said she did. We don't know the truth.

That applies to every second hand statement you’ve ever heard. I believe Rachel.

How would a nighttime curfew protect wives or partners? Not all rapes happen outside the home so it wasnt a very clever remark.

It’s quite a common feminist thought experiment, she isn’t in charge of government policy, is she?

I don't know her so I wouldn't automatically believe her over anyone else. She might be telling the truth or she might not. I don't just believe what anyone says without some reason.

I’m sure if someone had made that point in good faith Rachel would have engaged with it. Instead you had men in one of the most endemically misogynistic professions whining about misandry.

That’s great, you do you. I see no reason to doubt her because I know how these things get twisted.

Even if she did say it, so what? It was a conversation between adults, professionals at that. Makes a change from the victim blaming usually trotted out.

Oh okay, we won't do it then..

But it was clearly untrue. If you said it would reduce it fair enough but it obviously wouldn't end it. It's just saying rubbish for the sake of it but if you think someone saying that has actually got a grip on the subject you haven't thought it through.

I just thought this was worth posting here. The North East has big problems with rapey men, and it seems they start early.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2lqjjwvw2xo

I think what you're missing is it's a thought experiment which addresses the actual problem.

The point being to prevent the rapists from having an opportunity to rape, not force their victims into having to evade them.

it's in answer to the often suggested idea that women can, or rather should, do something to avoid being raped. Instead on focusing on the rapists and stopping them.

Far too many people think it's a question of evasion tactics, rather than putting the blame squarely where it should be, on the men who do it and how can we make sure they don't.

I think what you're missing is it's a thought experiment which addresses the actual problem.

This exactly. It's like suggesting that perhaps instead of Muslim women covering their hair and bodies from the male gaze, men should have to wear some kind of blinkers to help them. Or always be accompanied by female relatives when they go out in public, you know, to avoid sexually assaulting any women?
It's meant to be shocking. It's meant to highlight the ludicrous restrictions placed on women.
[NB I've only had this conversation when working with asylum seekers from some conservative Muslim countries who regularly told me that I was dressed, behaving and living my life very wrong].

I remember the first time I heard about the male curfew idea back in the 80s, and immediately scoffed at such an offensive, ridiculous idea. It took me a second or two to realise what was happening.

Was the eighties campaign called reclaim the night?

Yes it was, started in Leeds with women marching. It was in response to women being effectively put under curfew by the police in response to "the Yorkshire Ripper" Women said, keep men in and you'll find him, rather than women staying in to avoid him killing them

It's like suggesting that perhaps instead of Muslim women covering their hair and bodies from the male gaze, men should have to wear some kind of blinkers to help them. Or always be accompanied by female relatives when they go out in public, you know, to avoid sexually assaulting any women?

exactly. It's the totally ingrained notion that women are second-class citizens. If that.

Men saying you need to do this, that and the other otherwise I'll be forced to commit a crime. And basically it will be your fault. So if you don't want me to assault you, sort yourselves out.

I remember singing this in feminist protests in the 1980s. I've just listened to it again and wanted to share it for those who haven't heard it before, and for those my age or older who look back and realise that the song was written nearly half a century ago. It makes me want to cry. Look where we are now.

From the BBC article

The girls said they changed their behaviour regularly to feel safer, avoiding large groups of young men and sticking together when they go out at night.

"It shouldn't have to be like that," one said. "I should just be able to walk home the quick way.

"But I'd prefer to take the long way round just so I know if anything was to happen, there were people there.

This isn't a thought experiment that got a woman sacked for a policeman's hurty feelz, this is what girls are actually doing to try to stay safe.

Thank you for posting this. Such a powerful song. And yes, depressing how little humanity has advanced since.

It wasn't me, but whoever it was, I like their style
https://nitter.net/rachelsfletcher/status/2084612694368215318

So the women who get raped by their husband or partner during curfew aren't really raped are they because rapes don't happen if there's a curfew. Maybe we could give it a new catchy name like non consensual sex with a live in partner. Surely a thought experiment should actually work.

What about women who get raped during the non curfew hours, are they raped?

Is that a reason for DC Fletcher to be sacked then, you think her logic is faulty?

First person to say this was Golda Meir, Israeli PM in the 70s:

Though reluctant to directly identify as a feminist, Golda was known to sometimes say things that could only be described as feminist in nature. During Israel’s rape epidemic in the early 1970s , Golda’s cabinet suggested creating a curfew for women as a possible solution. Golda replied, “But it is the men who are attacking the women. If there is to be a curfew, let the men stay at home.” Even though Golda wouldn’t have called herself a feminist, this was a bold statement, especially at the time. This quotation leads one to believe that Golda recognized the problematic nature of victim-blaming, and the injustice inherent in placing the responsibility of rape prevention on women rather than on men.

https://jwa.org/blog/risingvoices/badass-bubbee