Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 3

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5548369-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-2

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I'm just about ready for take over

Perfect 👍🏻

aside. What we have here is draft constitution of SEEN, can you see their mission statement - to support equity between women and men, won't read out the rest but refs to sex based rights and the EA.
^^
ED that's right
^^
AL both AG and SEEN share a common theme, they rely on EA to

ED says ED has swyer syndrome -but it is not unknown for trans to claim things that are not true. Swyer syndrome is a disorder where there are XY chromosomes but the people with it are generally recognised as female.

support their members
^^
ED [no response audible] AL they both have members with a pc, ED I would quibble with that AL let me try again, your members are covered by GRA, theirs by belief ED some of my members might not have a
^^
pc
^^
AL - different pcs but networks about sharing a pc

29 years of incompetence and in the latter years a deep hatred of women.

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2016/11/02/my-birthday-surprise/

Shes hitting or has hit 50.

That what all trans activists do isn't it? They make it everyone else's responsibility to take care of their feelings, needs and priorities.......though that is also a form of power and control in itself. And distressed children/young people are taught that if they threaten suicide then their parents will cave in and give then what they are requesting.

Presenting yourself as a victim is a form of power and control.

ED has a DSD - swyer syndrome.

ED claims to have Swyer syndrome but then again Rachel Dolezal claims to be black.

Not sure why its adding arrows where the spaces are, but won't let me delete them. Bear with me and I'll tackle the formatting issues as we go

J which pc
^^
AL religion and belief
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J okay, just trying to be clear AL both groups seek to challenge and prevent unfairness to members ED I would say they go beyond that
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AL both rec by Cabinet Office
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ED yes they are
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AL both have websites
^^
ED yes

ED oh this is the one with the loose pages
AL don't think you'll need those put them

Yes, it seems ED is incapable of not giving a running commentary on what she sees before her.

AL both have lanyards, posters, run events
ED yes have in the past
AL both have published articles
ED not sure AG have published articles
AL do you use gov communication tools, including the intranets
ED we use the internet, because there is not x-gov intranet

AL do you use social media
J - clarifies intra vs inter
AL do you use Yammer
ED have in the past
AL do you use 3rd party social media, X for example
ED our X account is shuttered
J - did you use at time of events
ED yes
J and Yammer, etc ED yes

I presume ST is in the room watching proceedings today?

AL at the top, AG logo, this is from the AG X account, would you have posted this ED RT of a news item
AL it's clear that the news item described the GC movement in a way that associates it with genocide
ED that's the view of the institute
AL you are forwarding to all of your

i saw a clip of her talking about her 'intersex' condition. she was saying that externally she presents in a fully female way, though that she has some " internal differences"; and that if her DNA was sampled as part of a murder investigation they would decide that the murderer was male.

How exactly does this syndome manifest? She looks like she went through female puberty - but did she?

For those who want to see the type of thing Emma posted before she 'shuttered' her hate filled feed

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230416102703/twitter.com/MrsEmmaDunn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230416102703/twitter.com/MrsEmmaDunn/

If someone says they have a medical condition like a DSD, it has probably been diagnosed - I think we should take it at face value that ED has SS, as we don't have a valid reason to disbelieve her.
Even though she may be making a big deal out of her DSD, the fact remains that it is not an assumed 'identity' it is a medical condition, a 'disorder'.

I may be wrong, but I'd rather err on the side of accepting that she has SS.

AL and you are chair of AG (a:gender)
ED co chair,
AL were you sole chair during the period concerned
ED yes

Does anybody know who her current co-chair is?!
The a:gender website is absolutely useless in providing any info, the only contact mail address is a generic one.
Has she been effectively demoted if she now has to share the boss position?

followers
ED not forwarding, resharing, we are allowed to share news items
AL do you agree that would be offensive to someone of a GC mindset
ED if they read the article carefully, they
might not find it offensive
J seeking clarification

AL it's clear that the news item described the GC movement in a way that associates it with genocide
ED that's the view of the institute

Like ST, she doesn't sugar coat their antiGC attitude, does she?😮

My note:ED if they read the article carefully, they might not find it offensive maybe if your members could actually read a children's book we wouldn't be here. Moving on...

ED they might object to being part of a wider movement that they don't understand and not everyone taking part in the movement is doing so in bad faith. [Lemkin Institute]
AL it is associating GC people with genocide
AL did you make

"If you are offended by your beliefs and boundaries being called genocidal bigotry, we were right, you genocidal bigot. Don't take it personally"

So ED, like SD, also happy to say and send whatever she likes about gender critical beliefs but doesn't want SEEN to exist.

that clear
ED we're not allowed to comment
AL back to WS, remind you what it says
ED yes
AL para 13, GC views protected but just protected as beliefs, go on to discuss expression. Do you accept that a belief can be lawfully expressed.
ED I accept that some may be lawfully
expressed
AL you say that 'sex is binary' in the workplace, is offensive because it conflicts with your lived experienced, so do I take it that you do not think that is a lawful
expression of views
ED no, it is not lawful, that is not the convo they are are seeking to have, they

https://www.osmosis.org/answers/Swyer-syndrome
This is pretty thorough